My 1980 Single Engine B-17 Landing

[Larry Kraus]

CAPFLYER,I never met Bud Rude.I did see him working near Hemet once about 10 years ago,but that's about it.I didn't get to California all that often when I was on the Winslow/Coeur d'Alene contract and the Wenatchee and Moses Lake contracts following that.Then the Feds ditched us and I only worked in Oregon until this October through December when the CDF called us back.

Scott,I never flew with Scott Hoffmeyer,but I think that he was the c/p on Tanker 141 in Alammogordo when I was there with T68 in 1980.See if the pictures below look like him.

Pictures below are:

1-3 Scott Hoffmeyer? at Alamogordo in 1980

4-6 Evergreen's Tanker 141 at Alamogordo in 1980

7. Evergreen's Tanker 145 at Alamogordo in 1983

8&9 Ft.Huachuca from Tanker 22 in 1983

10. Google Earth picture of Ft. Huachuca with the new runway.The old airport is visible with the tanker base under the tail of the blue airport icon

[ZRX61]

I almost met my demise in the same aircraft... or rather, right next to it...

One morning while it was at Duxford for M'Belle I opened the door at the back of the fuselage & was almost buried under an avalanche of pizza, KFC & other fastfood containers

[RNDMTRS4EVR]

Larry;
Yep that looks like him. WOW that runway sure got a lot bigger, I'm sure that helps ease the pucker factor on a hot day with a full load. I'm trying remember what tanker base it was in AZ that Wally Griffin use tell me stories about when they got a dispatch in the DC-7 #67 that they had to start there take off run rounding the corner of the taxi way onto the runway or they would go off the end of the runway! He use to bitch at the BLM telling them they need to down load out there, but they wouldn't listen until I think one of T&G's DC-7 had an incident there. He said they never went back after that contract year I want to say that was in 89 or 90 maybe..... It might have been Whiteriver? not sure though.
Scott……..

[Larry Kraus]

Scott,that sounds like White River at Ft.Apache.There's a true Hole.I didn't like even flying up the canyon where the airport was located when I had altitude and airpeed from the trip over from Winslow.No way that I was going to land there.I think that Brian Lash or Del Hunt took either Tanker 66 (DC-7) or Tanker 68 (DC-6) in there once,but had to go out empty because they were sinking through the ramp.

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[astixjr]

Larry,
Cleaning out the upstairs office and getting ready to turn it into a nursery for baby #3 yikes. Found some of my old photos of Evergreen's B-17 taken about a year before I left the company. I'm thinking Sandy Ellis took these but I'm not sure. Maybe Penn S. or Capt Z took them I'll try to figure it out. Very different panel now. Great stuff you are posting, most of us can only read about this stuff or walk around it at airshows and museums. You actually made these cockpits your office. And I thought I was lucky to survive Evergreen.

[CAPFlyer]

CAPFLYER,I never met Bud Rude.I did see him working near Hemet once about 10 years ago,but that's about it.I didn't get to California all that often when I was on the Winslow/Coeur d'Alene contract and the Wenatchee and Moses Lake contracts following that.Then the Feds ditched us and I only worked in Oregon until this October through December when the CDF called us back.

By chance do you remember if he was flying Tanker 85 then? If you're up around Deer Lake ever, FFI's still flying Tanker 85 there on long-term contract to the State of Washington. Last PBY tanker still earning a living.

BTW, love hearing your stories, can't wait for your next installment.

[RNDMTRS4EVR]

Larry;
It sure was sad to hear what happened to #68, I know Del really liked the old girl. I think that was the last DC-6 tanker in service in the U.S. right? I know it was the only A model. I got to see Del up in Billings in I think it was 2001 or 2002 when I was chasing my dad around on contract that year. Those four 2800's at take off were pure blissfull music to my ears, I'm sorry to say this, but they even souned better than the 3350's on the P-2V or DC-7. Of course the loudest airtanker out there had to be the 4Y on a hot day and heavy going out of Reno.
Scott........

[Larry Kraus]

CAPFlyer,I must have got my PBY's mixed up.I though that the outfit that operated red PBY contracted by the CDF that was destroyed when it flipped over while scooping water a few years back called themselves Flying Firemen.I didn't know that was who owns T85.I often worked with Tanker 85,especially during the 4 years that I was based at Moses Lake.Eric Johnson was the pilot at that time.I always enjoyed watching him work with that old boat.He could scoop out of places that I wouldn't have taken a rowboat.

[Larry Kraus]

Scott,I agree that it was very sad to see what happened to Tanker 68,and also to the DC-7 Tanker 67,which shared the same fate.There had been some talk of saving at least the cockpit section of 68 for the American Ailines Museum,but that fell through for some reason.It's too painful to post pictures of the actual cutting up of the DC-6,but I think that the picture below sums it up.

As to the DC-6 vs. the DC-7 or P2V exhaust note.The DC-7 and P2V's have R-3350 Turbo-Compond engines and their exhaust is routed to 3 PRT's that make good mufflers.The DC-6 has relatively short stacks on their R-2800's that put out a real snarl when under a lot of power.The S-2's with R-1820's,or T-28's,for that matter are also pretty snarly.When I flew the R4D-8/C-117D Super DC-3 on the Alaska Fish Haul,it also sounded snarly compared to DC-3/C-47 types because it had stacks similar to the DC-6 instead of collector stacks like the regular '3.

When I flew Twin Beeches out of Miami International,our loading ramp was in "Corrosion Corner" just northwest of the approach end of Runway 9L.Both Bellomy-Lawson and Trans Air Link were still operating DC-6B Freighters at that time and Trans Air Link had one DC-7CF.They flew freight to the islands,mostly,and liked to depart very early in the morning when it was relatively cool and there was an onshore breeze.

I couldn't see the DC-6 or 7 well enough to tell whch it was when one of them taxied into position at night,but it was obvious when the went to max power.The DC-6 would snarl it's way down the runway and the DC-7 sounded more like a diesel locomotive with a sort of a "Wumma-Wumma-Wumma" sound to it.

Last edited by Larry Kraus on Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[T2 Ernie]

When I flew Twin Beeches out of Miami International,our loading ramp was in "Corrosion Corner" just northwest of the approach end of Runway 9L.

Wow - there's a blast from the past - Corrosion Corner at MIA. My dad had a friend with a shop there, Dave Robinson (I think) who had a T6 & partnered with Tom Green on an F6F. I can remember going there as a kid & crawling around on all those old planes...

...thanks for the memory!

And keep your stories coming!

[RNDMTRS4EVR]

Larry;
I ......I........I Think I want to curl up in the fetal position and cry after seeing that photograph! I KILLS me to see want came of that airplane! I sure you witnessed a much more horrid event of watching them cut those birds up! What a shame I wish some museum could have got those, kind of like the DC-4's and other iron down at Chandler when they went in there and cleaned house. I was working a job in Tucson at the airport and on my breaks I’d grab a golf cart and go drive around on the airport and look at all of the airplanes in storage. There was this one particular C-97 that I liked to go look at, I sure many people on this board know what aircraft I'm talking about. Well It had been sitting there derelict for years, and when I asked a guy on the airport that worked near by he said the owners had abandoned it, I guess they could not pay the bills or lost there cargo contract or something to that effect. So asked the guy what was going to happen to the airplane, he did not know but thought if someone wanted it bad enough it could be had fairly cheap. Well as the story goes I left Tucson for a job in San Diego so I never got to find out whom to talk to about the C-97. So year or two goes by and I find out that know wanted the airplane and the airport authority wanted it gone, so the scrap man got her, the bad thing is, it was the last C-97 to roll off of Boeing production line! I did hear that the Berlin historic association did get to get parts and engines off of her before the scrap man got her. So I guess my point is: I HATE seeing airplanes get cut up that are not very common these days, O.K. back to air tanker stories and pictures.
Scott.........

[CAPFlyer]

CAPFlyer,I must have got my PBY's mixed up.I though that the outfit that operated red PBY contracted by the CDF that was destroyed when it flipped over while scooping water a few years back called themselves Flying Firemen.I didn't know that was who owns T85.I often worked with Tanker 85,especially during the 4 years that I was based at Moses Lake.Eric Johnson was the pilot at that time.I always enjoyed watching him work with that old boat.He could scoop out of places that I wouldn't have taken a rowboat.

There were 2 Flying Fireman operations. Flying Fireman, Ltd, which was based out of Canada and Flying Fireman, Inc. FFL was the company Bud started in Canada flying PBY's years and years ago. He then brought the company to the US after a regulation change made it easier to operate the PBYs in the US (I think at the time Conair, Buffalo, and Kelwona had all taken most of the contracts as well), so he reformed the company as FFI. I don't know a whole lot about FFI's history, but T85 is definitely one of the planes. I know they had a plane go down some time ago, but I think it was while it was still FFL, so it was pre-1980s.

And yes, Eric is quite a pilot. He also flew/flies Bud's Heron (N82D) and flew on-and-off for Bud's son's company Air Tahoma on CV240s. I had the great opprotunity to jumpseat with him and another pilot on a 240 run back in 2004 and it was nothing but a pleasure to hear the two of them chat about things during the flight.

[skybolt2003]

so who's OdIM? Please keep the stories and photos coming!! I have a hard time keeping the tanker #'s and pilots straight sometimes but I'm trying hard.

[RNDMTRS4EVR]

Skybolt2003;
OdiM: Old Dude in Montana AKA Chuck Ott, he used to fly B-17's and P-2V's. Real nice guy with some great stories as well.
Scott.......

[skybolt2003]

Skybolt2003;
OdiM: Old Dude in Montana AKA Chuck Ott, he used to fly B-17's and P-2V's. Real nice guy with some great stories as well.
Scott.......

Thanks