Warbird Information Exchange

I was going to drop this subject, but one last word of explanation. Maybe by listing under this heading I confused some posters (CAF Selling 109). I have known about the plans for selling the 109 for years. I am sure that in this time many members have had time to discuss this with GS members and have not a big problem with that sale. As I said I was informed about this, but when were we (members) told of the sale of the PV-2? Can't recall. And the C-46.....the only mention is a remark from Gary on this forum. Should members be notified of these sales? Maybe have first crack at them? Maybe Bill Greenwood had a good idea I agree with. (H.e.l.l. has frozen over)

My suggestion would be to earmark a chunk of the funds from the sale of the 109 and hire a business consultant. That's what the AOPA and the EAA did a few years ago when they were struggling. The EAA used Gaylord Villers out of Chicago.
They are a lot more financially solvent and have grown their assets enormously. I worked for a small company that was stagnating and we hired and went through the process. Our mission statement was obsolete, our buildings functionally obsolescent, our equipment completely and totally worn out, and the organization had outgrown some of its own leadership. We even had idle assets, non-performing assets, poor asset allocation, and we were putting money into marketing assets that were never going to be profitable again, while ignoring our customers demands for more supply of our best products. We had to sell off a few "sacred cows." The management consultant cost $20K in 1997 dollars. The company has grown 300% during that time period.
I love the CAF, it's story,and its founders. YOu guys created the warbird interest and the warbird airshow business. Now's the time for strategic management.

With the profusion of warbird owners out there, all with their competing marketing and capabilities, the warbird economy is increasingly competitive. No old tradition is going to be competitive in this environment. The CAF is competing for dollars, volunteer hours, show revenue, and limelight. How they proceed in this environment is wholly up to them, as it's their collection and their assets to lose. I think Marine Air is spot on saying that the CAF needs an outside analysis of their assets, revenue streams, administration, operations, continuity operations, and market appropriation and appreciation. Doing so from within the organization is short-sighted and lends itself to creating new internal stressors to the group that will interfere with their future movement and growth, as is evident from comments here. I regularly talk business this way with members of the warbird community, and every one of my customer's is very strongly considering their position in what all of them see as diminishing revenue sources for continued operations. To continue to go down a road with a preconceived set of notions about what is and is not effective in this environment without objective analysis would be ill-advised on the part of any entity which annually expends large amounts of capital to maintain flying WWII aircraft.

The first time I heard about the CAF was when I read the article in "Boy's Life" which was the magazine for cub scouts. It is probably my earliest memory of the organization. But times have changed. You don't find P-39's laying in back of a hangar, and you don't find parts laying around any more (unless you're me), but you do spend large amounts of money making them. I know the realities of operating my L-5, and can extrapolate the future costs pretty well. I have a pretty good idea of what it costs to operate a B-25, T-6, TBM, and a few others. We are talking about massive amounts of go-nowhere capital, meaning that you get very little real return for your dollar. Finding big dollars like that is an extremely hard enterprise. Is the CAF, or any other owner for that matter, perfectly positioned for finding that capital? Or even 80% positioned? I don't think so. Because I know that if I had to totally depend on outside revenue tomorrow for my airplane, I'd be SOL. I know that constructing that base of cash for future operations is a lengthy, tortuous, sinuous path.

Now look at the assets being expended on the B-29. I want to see Fifi fly, as I think it is important. Obviously, if the Buchon sale proceeds are going to her, that hopefully will happen. But what if it doesn't? If there is no joy on getting engines working, or metal in the oil from first runs and no more money to go from there, what will happen? I'm hoping that the organization is considering this as a contingency but am also suspect that if a promised 2,000,000 donation didn't materialize, that there is not a contingency for this event. I don't want to look at Fifi as a sacred cow as described by Marine Air, as something that can go by the wayside for the better of the organization. But I am saying that an objective analysis by somebody outside the CAF would go a long way to establishing odds on this, to determining a reasonable amount of money to expend in pursuit of flying the airplane, and to offer reasonable alternatives to the present course which was set in motion by the organization.

I wouldn't want to be the one who says that the airplane will never fly again. That totally goes against my wishes and most profound dreams. But if it makes the CAF healthy and positions it for continued survival, I'm all for it.

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REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

This thread has moved away from the -109 to a wider area of discussion, which is good. Like Doug, as a member of the General Staff, the view from that position is many times difficult as the harsh realities of "business" as opposed to a "flying club" demand difficult decisions. Selling the ME was one of those difficult decisions. However, the organization simply has to change how it conducts its business or it won't survive.

Forgotten Fields and Marine Air mention the need for an "outside" view: my first General Staff meeting (three years ago) as a member was that very event. We brought in a consultant and spent a great deal of time trying every which way to convince ourselves that we didn't need to change radically. Guess what...Three years have passed and the light has dawned. Steve Brown, our new President, is effectively an outsider and he is taking advantage of this new-found wisdom and is implementing much needed change to the CAF. We will be a leaner, more financially solvent organization with a much clearer mission statement and business plan.

I'm sorry that "Ober" has not seen fit to come to any of the GS meetings since I've been on the GS and sit in on the various discussions. Since he hasn't been part of the solution, then perhaps he's.....??? Taylor, you can wrestle with him; I give up.

Re: the PVand C-46....the unit that bought the PV project more than a DECADE ago asked permission to sell it in order to get a flying airplane that more closely matched their abilities to support, maintain, and fly: permission was granted as no other unit wanted the project. The C-46 has been up for assignment for more than 4 YEARS. Having it sit and deteriorate is simply poor management of an asset and (in my opinion) a violation of the fudiciary responsibility of the directors of the corporation aka the General Staff.

Doug is going off the GS in 08 as the demands of his real job at Cavanaugh make it really difficult to come to the meetings and be as involved as he would like. He will (won't you?) stay active with the CAF and be a person who can speak with authority about the entire warbird movement, the CFM and the CAF. His comments should carry much weight on this board....

He isn't that good a basketball official however!

Old Shep

One of the reasons we brought in an "outsider" was because everyone was so entrenched in their thinking, and everyone was passionate and intense about their areas of expertise. Sometimes it's hard to see clearly ahead when you are in the thick of the battle. Our outsider acted as a referee or facilitator. He didn't have any vested intersts or particular passion for our business so he was not to be swayed by emotion.
We had "stakeholders" and three outsiders that participated. One was our attorney that knew something about our business, an accountant/H.R. person that knew tax questions, and a retired businessman in a similar industry that already had taken a company to a size 10 times bigger than we were at that time. The facilitator was able to stay outside of the fray and assess what we were discussing and then focus it into a plan of action, in this case a three to five year plan. It also involved, of course, SWOT Analysis , or evaluating our strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats.

Well, Charlie drug him and Mr. C back to the DFW wing so hopefully they'll show up at Lancaster once in a blue Saturday with a surprise for us...

Mine, too! That must have been around 1977 IIRC...the CAF had just gotten FIFI into the air. As a kid who was building WWII airplane models at the time, I was blown away that such an organization existed and that the planes still were around.

I don't mean to hijack the topic, but there was a local CAF wing, the Stars and Stripes Wing that was restoring a TBM at Frederick. Last I heard, the TBM was moved to Hagerstown. Now I don't see any info on the Stars and Stripes Wing, or the TBM listed anywhere on the CAF inventory. Is there any other news?

I'm not a member, but here is what I don't know. The TBM is physically located at the Hagerstown Aviation Museum now, after leaving Frederick. I believe it may be up for assignment but don't know for sure. The airplane needed a prop and carb overhaul for sure, had the torpedo doors made but not hung, and was still in most of the paint job from Forest Protection. I don't know the status of the Stars and Stripes wing. There was a lot of work done on the airplane, but with the problems with the CAF wing and the demise of the Frederick airshow, I don't know where they stand. If you are really interested in knowing what goes on, I can ask the appropriate people.

That said, the National Capital Squadron at Culpepper VA is really doing well. They occupy a large hangar, have an L-5 and BT-13 (BT is down for maintenance I believe) and several squadron members have interesting aircraft. Talk to Jase about them.

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REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

Old Shep,

Your comments to Ober and I quote:

"I'm sorry that "Ober" has not seen fit to come to any of the GS meetings since I've been on the GS and sit in on the various discussions. Since he hasn't been part of the solution, then perhaps he's.....??? Taylor, you can wrestle with him; I give up."

I find to be in very poor taste. Not all of us can afford to do that. I for one would love to come out to a GS meeting or even a staff conference but unfortunately I have a full time job and a family to support which precludes me the time to come out there. Instead I spend my free time supporting the local group any which way I can. What would be a better solution is that better notes taking of the GS meetings and sent out to all the members so we can see what is going on. Then when people contact you with questions it would be GREATLY appreciated if YOU returned phone calls so things can be discussed. And those are my feelings.

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Col Craig Duck
Life Member CAF
Life Member YAF
Life Member EAA

Craig:

Touche' You are exactly right. My comment was not constructive....however, Ober lives "just down the road a bit" from Midland so coming here for Winter Staff (for example) isn't as difficult as coming from Virginia....And, yes, I owe you a phone call that I haven't made yet. Since it is holiday break I shall do just that.

I guess my impolite comment about Doug's officiating ability was off the mark, too.....although, on second thought....

Anyway, I really think the CAF is pointed in the right direction and I just want to encourage folks to get on board. Frustrates me when I can't make that clearer to more people.

Shep

Well folks, I am extremely thankful for these discussions about the CAF on WIX. I have found out more about what is going on in and around Midland that I have from any "CAF sponsored" publications. Keep asking the questions.
Bob

I will, as my discussion has resulted in dialog with HQ personnel as to what I have been addressing. Although I still don't agree on some subjects it is good to be heard anyway. And they didn't even have to insult me. Kind of miss that though.

The deer my son shot in your back yard tasted funny, what have you been feeding your pets? Might explain why it's last words were "Dude...Don't shoot me 'bro"

One point I wish everyone would realise is that HQ is made up of dedicated, hard working people that truely care about the membership and the CAF. The hard business decisions are made by the General Staff, who are also hardworking and dedicated. I have never had a member complain to me about any of the workers at HQ and will always compliment them when they have deal with someone directly. When people complain about HQ, they are really complaining about some decision or policy that they don't like. WIX seems to be a complaining ground for the CAF, as planenutti noted, maybe we could start a CAF site to keep things open. Randy?

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Blue Skies,
Doug

www.cavanaughflightmuseum.com

Doug - we had plans for a CAF Member's Only forum and done some limited testing but due partly to all the changes at HQ recently, the forum has been put on a back burner as we look into different ways to manage and develop our websites. This does not mean that a forum or other new features won't be available in the future.

Right now I'm just in an advisory position regarding CAF Internet sites, so I'm not speaking in any official way.

Randy

Wellup, since I am sitting here nursing a cold that's trying to kill me, I can take a couple minutes to comment.

Forgotten Field: Thanks for the kind words. Indeed the National Capitol Squadron is doing well. We can be seen at www.nationalcapitolsquadron.com and we invite ANYONE in the area to come meet us and see what we are about, and join up if you'd like to he'p out. I may be a bit biased but I think FF and others will agree when I say that the NCS is the most welcoming group out there. We are ALWAYS looking for new members, and you don't have to be a mechanic or pilot, just have to love these ole hunks of aluminum!!!!

I believe that the Stars and Stripes Wing has folded, or is in the final process of doing so. However, a number of S&S members have joined NCS and are huge assets to our group.

Ober and Bob F: I agree that the WIX board has in fact, mostly due to Gary, and Bill C, and Doug J' posts, been a much more timely source of info than the CAF printed pubs. HOWEVER: If ANY of y'all want, call HQ and talk to Donna Blalock and she will, for a small sum, send you regular updates (minutes and the like) of all the General Staff meetings. This is a service available to ALL members. The big problem with relying on the CAF pubs is that they have a long lead time, and also there often is other info deemed more pressing to get into the hands of the members, such as AIrsho info and spotlights on various birds and the resurrection thereto.

I will echo Doug J's comments about the paid staff at HQ. I am a business owner myself, and have had the chance to see a LOT of different institutions and operations over the years. I can safely say that, with the exception of some of my own employees, I have NEVER met more competent and dedicated folks as the HQ staff. People like Ann Q, and Lindsey in accounting, VanHoff, Gary A and Safety-Bob in the greasy-monkey side ,and Floyd and even Bob Rice have ALWAYS been unfailingly professional to me whenever I've called and talked to them, whether on Unit business or personal questions. And, if they can't help me, they get me to whoever can, and they follow up on it. We, the CAF, are damned lucky and blessed to have folks like that.

I also, like my feathered buddy Daffy Duck, find it a PITA to get to MAF, being in VA and being self-employed which means often being on 24 hour call. However, when the need arises, I can and have done it. Some on GS may remember I made an appearance a couple years ago for what amounted to 5 minutes of commenting, on an issue I felt of great importance to the CAF. EVERY *current* member of GS was welcoming and willing to hear me out and talk to me. One individual (NOT a GS member currently) was NOT welcoming, but he's an ole coot that is probably PO'd that the Valley Flying Club no longer exists. Also, I'm half his age and will still be an active member long after he's gone.

In closing, yea, the CAF is not perfect, but we do have some dedicated and truly competent folks, both paid and volunteer, and we as an organization are in my opinion doing our damndest to survive and thrive for another 50 years and beyond. Will we please every member all the time? Nope. Will the organization grow and thrive? I sure hope so, with the amount of time, money, blood sweat and tears I have poured in over the last decade.


My recommendation might be to have a CAF members only forum HERE on Wix, since so many of us are already active on WIX. Randy/Scott??

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Regards,

Jase
www.b26marauder.com
"I'm having a BLAST!!" 2007 CAF Wing Staff Conference

RIP Gary Austin..always in our hearts