Warbird Information Exchange

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But you obviously have a strong enough opinion to publicly accuse the majority of museums of gross incompetence....




And the clear alternative is to let them corrode away where they were left at the end of hostilities.




Clearly the Smithsonian should fly their aircraft collection more.

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"They done it, they done it, damned if they ain't flew." December 17, 1903

I have so many issues with this statment that I don't know where to start.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

Lets say its been a long night, but here I'll clear a few up on my comments.

The word MOST was highlighted before museums, because there are a great many museums that restore aircraft to the era inside and out. There are alot of museums that just paint it and make it look good from the outside though.

Its not Valid to say something as delicate and old as a Spad XVI at the National Air and Space Museum should be flown everyday for safety reasons and longevity reasons. But something like an aluminum aircraft with engines that have plenty of spare parts should be flown while it can to allow future generations to experience the aircraft in flying condition, with interior and exteriors restored to the era, aswell as while parked on the ground. To have a picture is a 1000 words, but to see it, picture it and fly it, there is no other way to experience that.

Thats the way I see things. Which WILL be different than the way you see it. As a military member, who fixes and flies in military aircraft, and works on warbirds, and has dreamed about being around them since I could remember as a kid, you cant tell me Im wrong for the way I think. Its not a clear theory, but my standing is firm, if it can be made to fly, fly it.

When it cant fly anymore, store it in a museum for the future to see, but soemthing as airworthy as a B-25 should, an aluminum aircraft, with parts all around, should be restored to fly rather than be on display incomplete as an incorrect model, even with circumstance.

If you have a more complete theory share it, I wont say I know better, I might not like it, but its your opinion, as this is mine. Id love to hear yours, it might even make thoughts of the issue change.

My views are pretty much the exact opposite of yours. I have helped restore both flying and static warbirds. They are both equally important. Some that have access, interest, or ability, in going to an air museum may not have the interest to go to an airshow, and the other way around. The real historic, combat vets, aircraft that can not fly,and ultra rare airframs should go to static air museums. Static museums are not a bad thing. Most air museums that I have known, may not be perfect, but are trying the best they can. At the national Museums such as the NMNA, NMUSAF, NASM, the aircraft are put back to as close to stock as possible. The B-25 you speak of was not an airworthy aircraft. It is not complete because it is an ongoing restoration. In Dayton we view our aircraft as memorials to the pilots, ground crew, air crew, and all of the others that are associated with each airframe.
It hurts to hear some one say stuff like that while you bust your ass trying to put aircraft back together for static. You are not going to see the static museums start flying their stuff just because.
On another note, I am sure if you stopped and offered to volunteer to help with the inside of the B-25, that the museum would have been happy to have you help.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

Very good point.

Perhaps lost on others is the fact that in 2003 the Australian Government intervened and sent 2000 Australian soldiers and 300 Federal police to the region specifically to restore order to the capitol Honiara.

I can only imagine how popular Australians would be in a country where it has been occupied, arbeit in an "invitation" by their government , no doubt pressured by the potential withdrawal of Australian aid and money.....

One Australian solider was subsequently killed by a local, and Australian Police were stoned by rioters at one point To my knowledge Australia still maintians a prescence in the area, both Militarily and with Police.

Lets not forget that.

It's the old Blood Diamonds again.

Wow I agree every airplane should be flown once a week, the ones that cant should be scrapped out for spare parts If you have ever worked on restoring a military a/c let alone something like a B-25 you would know whats involved. Just because an aircraft sits static and is not flown doesnt condemn it to never fly again. I've seen several a/c that sat for decades put back in shape and flown away. Its real easy to make such bold statements if you are not the owner or care taker of these treasures. It takes lots and lots of cash to make any a/c leave the ground and if my radar is right and your like me you dont have enough money to even fill the fuel tanks that makes all that hard work flyable. The airworthy warbirds we get to enjoy today are a result of a lot of time, love, determination, hours and hours of hard work, piles of cash that can be staggering, divorces, ect. ect. ect. Many of the post WW2 a/c are too complex with no parts availability to even think of being airworthy. So if they cant fly they should be scrapped? That would eliminate the largest percent of surviving airframes in the world. I think if you would get involved with a local group or museum and work behind the scenes you will get a better idea of whats real and what is a fantasy as far as the world of aircraft are concerned. We are at a point in time were many of these birds will be lost forever the museums that are out there doing their best to preserve them should be supported any way we can. Turn off the computer get off your but and show us what your made of, lots of us get up on a saterday and head out to the local museum and do what we can to keep them from becoming a memory

Thanks Mike

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IF YOU CAN FIND IT WE CAN FIX IT

Mike is right on. The Lone Star Flight Museum's SBD is a perfect case of static to fly. The SBD hung from the ceiling in an non climate comntrolled building at the Nimitz Museum in Fredricksburg, TX for many many years. The museum needed a pile of cash for another big project ( which, ultimately never got the money raised ) so they sold the SBD. LSFM restored it and it now flies. At least the airframes are being preserved in some form and as we all know, that, at least, is a starting point for a future restoration.

I work 12 hours a day with the AIr Force, and the other 7 hours of my day in a hanger with minimum tools, trading sweating and bleeding over warbirds and fabricating parts that are not there to buy. Musuems work on budgets, we work on love and trading.

Believe me I do lots of restoration work, lots of scavenging the countries for parts and I do a great job at it. And I help just about anyone who comes up and asks for help. If you ever meet some guys that work with me theyll vouch for my dedication, and some people on this site have complete sets of flight controls with my help not too mention may other essential parts. I refabricate plastic parts with state of the art molding and machining processes, so yes Im invested in restoration for flight.
I dont need a "try it one day" lecture, but thanks.

Not every warbird is going to fly. It is jsut that simple. No matter how much you may hate it, static museums are just as important as flying ones.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

Hi,
I'd like to add my two cents to the discussion about trying to fly everything. noizeedave, from your post you are putting your sweat where your words are. I have one question though, how long have you been working on warbirds every day after your AF shift? The reason I ask is that it sounds like you might be headed for an early "burnout" ( which happens to a lot of museum volunteers unfortunately ). I was very Gung Ho when I started back in '92 but have come to have a more realistic outlook after riding the warbird hobby / obsession roller coaster. I believe most museums do the best they can with what they have to work with. I can understand your desire to have "perfect" restorations but the cold reality is "any preservation" is better than gone forever (even if it is only a move to a "safe" field to collect bird doo). I have watched planes get chopped/crushed/ground up into crumbs, some due to government paranoia others due to lack of interest and funding. That will make you grateful for everyone who tries anything to save our history for future generations (so maybe kids will not think "Pearl Harbor" is a documentary film --- god help us ). I can also state that almost all museums would "do better" if Bill Gates started writing checks at warp speed -- a flying B-36 maybe? Until that happens, all of us on Budwiser budgets will keep doing the best we can while trying to keep the doctor motto in mind about static restorations -- "Do no harm". The other wrinkle about "statics" is that to my knowledge ANY aircraft on loan from the military can NOT be flown/operated ( and I think we will be using a "Star Trek" transporter before they change their minds ).
Back to the original thread question. I think ALL REMAINING WWII aircraft sites worldwide need to be surveyed and recoveries made where practical (those still with crew remains considered graves unless the relatives agree on the recovery effort). This is what my Prof in college would call "rescue archaeology" IE one step ahead of the bulldozer or scrapman as the case may be (Heh MuddyBoots, your opinion?). I did not finish and get my degree but I still remember that with "regular" digs the site is destroyed by the dig itself -- thus the origin of the "left in place" US Park Service / US Navy school of thought. I believe aircraft in the "wild" will self-destruct even in "stable" environments unlike most other types of historic sites. If they are so stable then I should be able to pull up a sunken plane, wash & dry then fuel it and fly off to Oskosh. Even the glass will decomose if given enough time (OK ALOT of time but point made, I hope).
I think I'm up to a couple hundred cents so I'll stop here!
Happy Holidays Everyone!
Brian

Rick H, Glad to see the F-4 up again!

Nice post, Brian. Sorry I missed you , I was in Greensboro for a day but needed to get home. Sunday morning to Thursday night, almost 4000 miles roundtrip before we were finished.

Before someone yells HIJACK ! We were out saving pieces of warbirds so it ties to this thread.