Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Thu Apr 30, 2026 1:51 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:51 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:18 pm
Posts: 2275
Location: Vancouver, BC
Hi everyone,

that video with the P-38 duing the 1995 Duxford air displays got me thinking about how WWII fighters compared in manuevrebility; specifically roll rate.

So pilots, historians, nerds.... I'm not really interested in which was best, or worst, but how did they compare to eachother? The P-38 looks to have had a very decent roll rate, based on the duxford video, but could a Spit roll faster? Slower? And how about a BF-109, Mustang, etc, etc.

Thanks,

David


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:14 pm
Posts: 466
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA
If you really want to learn more, visit the SimhHQ forums and place a post in the IL-2 Forum saying something improbable like "The FW190 rolls slower than an Ercoupe" and then sit back and watch the fur fly. You'll rapidly be buried in performance data charts :-)


In general, roll rate is affected by aircraft weight, wingspan (shorter spans roll faster), overall stability and aileron authority (which isn't just a function of aileron size, but also how light on the controls the ailerons are). Note that aileron response can vary considerably with airspeed and altitude. Many aircraft were notorious for being difficult to manuever at high speeds (like the Zero, depite its agility, and the 109) because stick forces became so heavy.

The Fw190 rolled faster than a dachshund falling down an alpine ski slope, while the Spitfire banked more slowly. (Relatively speaking, anyway. For example, I once met a Mig-21 pilot who had flown a Mustang, and he commented on how pokey the P-51's roll rate was. Most pilots wouldn't describe a P-51's roll rate as leisurely, so it's definitely relative to what you know)

Flying technique also can make a big difference.

Anyway, the simmers are fanatics about such information, and thus are a great source.

_________________
What is red, furry and on your six?
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:47 am
Posts: 73
Location: Fort Worth, TX
I can make a few comparisons... but Fritz already made the point that your opinion depends on what you know...

A P-38 with Aileron Boost rolls very nicely... very much like an F-4, without aileron boost it rolls very much like a B-25 (which isn't bad, but it isn't quick).

A Mustang is a bit slow in roll... the T-6 is much more nimble on it's feet (and it has a slightly larger wingspan).

The F-15E is better than all of them... but won't beat and Extra 300L or a T-38...

Remember that the jets are hydraulically boosted... and that makes a huge difference... among the unboosted airplanes I gotta say the T-6 is really nice<g>...

gunny

_________________
Scott 'Gunny' Perdue
www.flyAMT.com
www.scottperdue.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:26 pm
Posts: 942
Location: Greeley, CO
We did this one already....a few times.....the Corsair and the P-38 came out the champs, the P-38 only after boosted controls were added later in the war....

M

_________________
Mark Morris


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:46 am
Posts: 366
Location: UK
Strange nobody has mentioned the P-40 - it has a fantastic rate of roll.

_________________
Warbird Colour - Authentic historic aircraft finishes http://www.warbirdcolour.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:35 pm
Posts: 719
Location: Johnson City, TN
What about the Bearcat? I know it didn't fight, but it was there.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:14 pm
Posts: 466
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA
I really wasn't kidding about simmer's. Here's a lively conversation in another forum regarding roll rates. With CHARTS...

_________________
What is red, furry and on your six?
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:47 am
Posts: 73
Location: Fort Worth, TX
fritzthefox wrote:
I really wasn't kidding about simmer's. Here's a lively conversation in another forum regarding roll rates. With CHARTS...


Dude-

I've trained in some fancy sims... and there are even fancier visuals coming out... but there is NO SIM, Class D or home computer driven that flies like the real thing... period... dot.... Sims are good for approximation, and procedures... what simmers think means nothing to me.. no apologies.

gunny

_________________
Scott 'Gunny' Perdue
www.flyAMT.com
www.scottperdue.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:35 pm
Posts: 719
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gunny,

They're not talking about sims. They've got charts from actual flight tests. I read all five pages. By the last one, two guys are fightin' like two cats in a sak. Its pretty funny.

Steve G


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:47 am
Posts: 73
Location: Fort Worth, TX
bipe215 wrote:
Gunny,

They're not talking about sims. They've got charts from actual flight tests. I read all five pages. By the last one, two guys are fightin' like two cats in a sak. Its pretty funny.

Steve G


Oh, never mind<g>.....

_________________
Scott 'Gunny' Perdue
www.flyAMT.com
www.scottperdue.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:18 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:18 pm
Posts: 2275
Location: Vancouver, BC
Oops,

sorry I brought it up. lol.

Thanks,

David


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 116 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group