Warbird Information Exchange

Navy grounds 39 aging planes over safety fears
Honolulu Advertiser 12/18/2007


The Navy has grounded 39 of its aging P-3C Orion surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft over concerns about possible structural failure in the wings.

It was unclear if the grounding affects Hawai'i-based planes. Three squadrons of P-3Cs are based at Kane'ohe Bay. Each has about 10 aircraft and 450 personnel.

Naval Air Systems Command, which issued a bulletin yesterday announcing the grounding, could not be reached for comment. The command in the bulletin said the 39 aircraft were "beyond known structural limits on the lower section" of the wing.

An inspection of all P-3C aircraft is ongoing, and the service said it's possible more aircraft may be grounded.

The P-3C concern follows the grounding of another aging aircraft, the Air Force's F-15 Eagle fighter, and worries over its structural integrity.

Hawai'i's F-15 Eagle fighters have not been able to fly since a Missouri Air National Guard jet crashed on Nov. 2.

The Air Force required three inspections involving F-15 A through D model aircraft. The grounding affects more than 450 of the aircraft worldwide.

The Hawai'i Air National Guard has 18 of the twin-tail fighters, which serve in a homeland defense role for the state.

In the interim, Hawai'i has been covered by F-16 Fighting Falcons from the Minnesota Air National Guard.

The prolonged grounding is affecting the training of F-15 pilots who are expected to fly between nine and a dozen times each month.

AVERAGE AGE: 28 YEARS

Ten of the Navy's P-3C propeller planes are currently deployed overseas, and Navy spokesman Cmdr. Jeff Davis said they will return to the U.S. for repairs and it has not yet been determined how or if they will be replaced.

"We are acting early, based upon engineering analysis and fleet inspections, to ground these aircraft before a problem arises," Davis said.

The Navy has a total of 161 of the P-3C Orions, which are 28 years old on average.

It will take 18 to 24 months to repair each of the planes, for a total of about three years to complete the process. Those that cannot be repaired will be removed from service.

The Orions are some of the oldest aircraft the Navy has, and they are to be replaced in coming years by the new P-8A Poseidon, a Boeing 737 derivative. The Poseidons are expected to be introduced in the Navy fleet around 2011.

39 CHOSEN BY ANALYSIS

Davis said it is not clear yet whether the rest of the Orions will also have to eventually be taken out of service for repairs.

The 39 were chosen based on their age, number of hours flown and other computer analysis that showed they had exceeded the amount of fatigue on the wings that the Navy considered a concern.

The Navy is looking at whether to base the new P-8A aircraft at Kane'ohe Bay or Hickam Air Force Base, or simply to maintain a detachment presence in the Islands, but the P-8A's arrival will spell the end for the Navy's use of the Orion.

The Navy previously said it planned to replace the P-3C four-engine aircraft with the P-8A at existing continental patrol home bases "while maintaining a maritime patrol presence in Hawai'i."

A typical six-month deployment for the four-engine planes takes one of the three Hawai'i squadrons to locations such as Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, the Middle East and countries including Bahrain and Japan.

The Associated Press and Advertiser military writer William Cole contributed to this report.

Ottawa to keep aging patrol planes in the air

David Pugliese
CanWest News Service


Tuesday, December 18, 2007


OTTAWA - The Harper government is confirming that it will purchase new surveillance aircraft while keeping most of the military's aging Aurora patrol planes flying until 2020.

The Defence Department will proceed with structural upgrades to keep 10 of the aging Aurora aircraft operating and deal with cracks in their wings as well as other sections of the planes. Canada operates 18 Auroras and it's not clear what will happen to the remaining aircraft.

The military had originally wanted to put a halt to all of the upgrades and structural work and proceed with the purchase of a new surveillance aircraft by 2016. Officers argued that made the most economic sense.

But successful lobbying by aerospace firms, including those in Defence Minister Peter MacKay's riding, derailed that proposal.

Dan Dugas, MacKay's spokesman, said new surveillance planes will be purchased but he did not provide additional details.

"Unlike the previous Liberal government's record of using aircraft well beyond their best-before-date - the Sea Kings come to mind - this government is planning now to buy state-of-the-art aircraft to replace the Aurora," Dugas said Tuesday.

Defence Department officials declined to be interviewed and instead referred CanWest News Service to the department's webpage and a press release on the Aurora.

"The Department will capitalize on these investments by upgrading the structure on the majority of the fleet," MacKay said in the press release. "The investment will keep the aircraft safe and operationally viable until 2020."

The Defence Department will move ahead with the next phase of Aurora modernization, which will involve improvements to radars, computers and other systems. The structural upgrades will also be done to ensure the "longevity and safe operation of these 10 aircraft."

So far, the Defence Department has spent $955 million to modernize the Auroras with new radios and other communications equipment and navigation gear.

The military's recommendation had been to keep the Auroras flying until 2016 without any new upgrades while proceeding with the purchase of the Poseidon surveillance aircraft, the U.S. Navy's successor to its version of the Aurora.

Several years ago Canada was invited by the U.S. to take part in the Poseidon program but declined.

While some air force officers want the Poseidon, a 737 converted into a surveillance aircraft, others are recommending the purchase of a plane similar to the ASTOR surveillance aircraft. That project is underway for Britain's military. ASTOR uses the smaller Bombardier Global Express jet and is designed for providing surveillance of ground targets.

Canadian Defence Department officials have asked aerospace firms for information on both Poseidon and ASTOR.

The Auroras operate out of Canadian Forces Base Comox, B.C., and CFB Greenwood, N.S., and are considered vital for watching over the country's maritime approaches. The aircraft were purchased in the early 1980s to conduct anti-submarine patrols and maritime surveillance.

Ottawa Citizen

© CanWest News Service 2007