Warbird Information Exchange

Hi everyone,

My girlfriend and I were just checking out WIX and came across the thread of how much of warbirds are still original material and/or equipment.

My girlfriend's question is, of all the current flying warbirds, which one(s)would be the most original having the least amount of alteration/restoration/or replaced parts?

In other words, which current flying fighter and which bomber are the most original?

She doesn't believe it when I say "We can definitely get some kind of answer here on WIX," so don't let me down!

Cheers,

David

Didn't we just ask this same question lately?

Not exactly the same, but similar:

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... sc&start=0

One of my favorites in the fighter category is Grumman F4F-3 Wildcat N12260 which is also her Bureau Number 12260.



She was one of the Wildcats that sat on the bottom of Lake Michigan for 50 years or so. After her recovery she had been restored but still retained a lot of originality. I remember hearing someone complain about the dirty looking paint inside the rear fuselage. I guess they didn't realize that what they were looking at was original WWII paint that was still in good enough condition that it was left intact. How rare is that?

She even has her original radios with the black wrinkle finish intact. You can even see her Bureau Number hand painted on one of the tuning coils.



Here is her instrument panel. The crash pad also retains factory WWII paint and is complete with the Bureau Number and call sign scratched into it by some aviator back in WWII.





She also flys with the same engine that she had when she was on the bottom of the lake. For the most part anyway as many parts were replaced at overhaul. I remember that the engine builder, Ray Anderson, said that the connecting rods looked to be factory new with all of the rubber stamped part numbers as fresh as the day they were made.

She has a lot of inaccurate things from the restoration but to me these pale in comparison to the big picture. I think she is very special because of her original condition and configuration. You do not see a lot of chrome, polish or gloss paint. No over restoration on this rare bird.

To the guys who restored her; well done! I apologize that I do not have their names available right now so I could give them credit as they sure did a fantastic job.

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

Randy, I think the question is the same, but different. Ah, the subtlties of the English language. The other thread asks in a generic fashion how much of a warbird is original ? Where this thread is asking . Which warbird is the most original... The man wants specifics.

I agree that of the WWII flying warbirds that Wildcat has to be right up there,... for now. I saw one of its sisterships in storage at Pensacola, she has the potential to be at least as authentic. It's still sitting on its own gear, the wings are folded, the engine, while slightly askew on its mount, is still dripping oil, even the fabric looks very good. The fuselage has a crease on the bottom that runs from about the trailing edge to the leading edge of the horizontal. This is before any restoration of any kind has been done !

For straight originality as your criteria these two will be hard to beat, though there will be some who look down their collective noses because they may not be old enough to fit the criteria.

Built 1965, this aircraft is now 42 years old



Except for two VHF radios everything is original and except for weapons systems , it all works. The aircraft went through a standard 650 hr inspection and except for cleaning no repaint has taken place in the cockpits.

Built in 1967, this aircraft is now [img]40%20years%20old[/img].

Restoration included a Phase A & B inspection as well as an IRAN to correct mostly small deficiencies in fasteners etcetera. The main modernization is the addition of a Garmin MX20 and 165 GPS in the front cockpit.

Not sure where this airplane is now-

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/avengerr ... 85794.html

but when Bill Hill in Houston owned this TBM he researched its history and said that when the war ended the aircraft was pulled direclty from carrier duty (it flew sevearl combat misions and has a few bullet holes) to go to a musuem. Luckily it never underwent the demill process to become a fire bomber or spray plane so it has all of its original parts- in the car collecting world this would be considered a "Numbers Matching airplane". It changes hands a few times and was temporarily repainted for teh Bush 1 inaugruation parade - but has never undergone, or needed any major restoration. Bill sold the aircraft several years ago and I heard it was a visitor at the CAF hanger in Arizona but when I went to look on the web page it was no longer listed.

I was fortuante enough to get a couple of rides in her and it was a great experience.


Does anyone out there now waht has become of her adn who has her now- the registry still lists Bill as the owner.

Steve S

This is still IMHO a highly subjective discussion. I find it very challenging to accept the criteria that has all ready been discussed in two other threads I can remember that "original" = as the day it left military service.

Parts are swapped around and replaced and REBUILT on aircraft in active military service so frequently and regularly that every aircraft is what the gun collectors would call a "mixmaster". There's simply no such thing as a "factory original" warbird, unless it crashed after takeoff on its delivery flight and was found that way.

Now owned by Hans Lauridsen and based in Arizona. Last time I checked it was at the Glendale airport but it may be out at Buckeye airport now or back in the CAF hangar at Falcon Field. Hans has airplanes in all three locations and a C-119 in Wickenburg as well if I recall correctly.

That's quite amazing about the Wildcat. Surprising how little needed to be done to it!

And the TBM is also quite amazing.

The question I was leaning towards is more like what Randy was commenting on.

A more exact question we have is "What warbirds still flown are closest to the condition they were after they were let go by the military."

Of course any parts replaced as part of regular maintenance are acceptable that are required in proper maintenace are acceptable.

We're looking to see what's still out there similar to George Maude's P-40, but still flying. George's P-40 is pretty much exactly the same as it was when he bought it at auction right after the war. It's quite a site to see.

So, anything like that, is what we're looking for.

Cheers,

David

I think a company called Blackhawk Airways did the majority of the work.

Our shop rebuilt the wings, nose-bowl, tail feathers, and control surfaces. While the fuselage faired well, the wings had substantial corrosion.

Thanks for posting the pictures Taigh- I haven't seen any interior shots of the airplane before. Really cool-

Ashley

Randy, when I say original, I too mean as they left military service. Unless Grumman or any of the other manufacturers buried brand new aircraft at their respective factories, factory new isn't out there to be found.

My two examples are " military original; ie: they came out of the boneyard that way.

I would think that Glacier Girl would be up there. Hey Rick, is the A-4 in it's original colors? I saw it a Pittsburgh a few years ago, and it was sweet.

_________________
Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

Galcier girl and P-40B Pearl Harbor survivor. Hands down both are prolly the most authentic.

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I thought the Corsair recently purchased from Walter Soplata was orginal and undemilled.

Thought we might have seen detailed pictures of this bird by now, but I guess the new owner is keeping it hush hush.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Instead of hijacking this thread I will post some other comments about the Lake Michigan Wildcats under a new topic.

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

Dan Dugans T28B.

Unrestored. New radio and transponder. Thats about it.

_________________
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