Airport Noise, Everyone PLease Read

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:10 am

I think this is important enough to have it's own topic. First DON'T MAKE AN ENEMY BEFORE YOU CAN MAKE A FRIEND! It is one thing to gripe about the anti-plane guys on WIX, but if anyone actually goes to a meeting on airplane noise, please be smart and polite and try to make a few friends for private aviation if possible. I have researched this some, and fought some battles over this. First, realize that there may be more of "them" (gen public) than us (plane nuts). Of course, you want to get as many airport supporters to any meeting as you can. Even local politicians may be able to count votes. What they can count even better is donations to their campaigns or to pet projects. It is a lot harder to stop a pilot that sponsors a local kids baseball team, or uses his plane for Cub Scout rides. Next, try to know your opposition. You may have a very few people who have moved near the airport and complain that their property values are lowered. There is a specific tactic that can be used, that of "full disclosure" of known defects in selling real estate. At APA airport in Denver, a lawyer, realtor moved right next to the runway and began to complain. A local instructor filed a notice to any future buyer of her property that it was impacted by airplane noise. She could not deny this as she was the one primarily complaining about the noise. When legal threats against the CFI did not work, she shut up. This is a hard tactic, and should be used with discretion, but worked there. more later

RickH · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:23 am

Bill I would expect that the people of Aspen would be buying you gas, just so they could hear the sweet sounds of the Merlin echoing through their mountains more often.

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:35 am

Rick, while there are a few vets and other folks that appreciate real airplane sounds, Aspen unfortunately has a lot more who appreciate the sound of big $$$$$ ringing up when the G5s come in and fill up with a few thousand $ worth of diesel, plus more $ for catering, limo service or rent a car (never share a shuttle with the unwashed masses) plane cleaning, etc. not to mention the money spent in town, and these folks ain't stayin in the motel 6 even if we had one. We got plenty of Hotel $600 (and up) however. A few controllers there like the Spitfire, most of them are pretty hostile.

fotobass · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:59 am

Well-thought post, Bill. Solid contribution.

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:12 am

Rick brought up Aspen, so here's our story of a long "noise" battle,which resulted pretty much in a tie. A local ski instructor lived in Woody Creek trailer park right under the flight path and complained about the noise as over time it went from DC 3 and Cessnas to G5s. A member of the Eagles, I think it was Glen Frey?, bought a house under downwind and hated gen aviation, think he had lost a brother in an accident. He secretly gave about $100k to local politicians( it may have been the DA also) to fight gen aviation. They stirred up a fight, had but weren't winning just on the noise issue, so they shifted the focus to "safety". You can imagine the hysteria they were able to whip up about little airplanes in the mountains and especially at night. When you go back and read the articles, it is clear that noise was the original bone and safety only the packaging, but it was smart, even if dishonest on their part. Some local pilots were smug and thought the FAA would defend us. The politicians went over the FAA heads to the Senate committee that controls FAA funding. Of course the local airline was trying to restrict gen av access also, and the issue became a night curfew for all those small planes. The FAA did stand up as best it could and said a curfew had to have an objective standard for all. The final result was sort of a tie, a curfew from 11 pm to 7am for All planes. Sadly, safety was never the real issue and nothing was done back then to make it safer to fly in the mountains. It is totally legal to fly an IFR approach in lousy weather, and there was a fatal accident a few years back. All the polticians, all the lawyers, and all the talk did not make the mountains any softer if you hit one.

Eric Friedebach · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:52 pm

I saw a brochure for a subdivision being developed near our airport recently. It actually touted being close to the airport as a convenience! And no, it’s not an airpark.

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:42 pm

Another noise tactic is what Fullerton, Ca. does. Fullerton is in the middle of homes and businesses like Disney. They have found that just returning a phone call to anyone who makes a complaint is useful and often lowers tension and can make a friend or at least avoid making an enemy. Maybe they can ask a pilot to reduce rpm after takeoff or maybe not do anything, but they have found that people want to a chance to say their mind and just that someone listening is welcome. Of course, the right person with a friendly and genuine manner is needed to return the calls. Another factor is jealousy. It is a very real motive behind many complaints, even if not stated. I have seen it on WIX. Whether we fly a $2m fighter or a $20k L-Bird, someone will have less and be envious. There is no use pretending that these are not expensive hobby items. One can gently point out that others have the right to own and use an expensive yacht, or even use a public funded golf course or sports stadium. Another way is to involve as many people in the airport, take them for rides, hold an open house, etc. It is great if the field has an on site cafe used by locals as well as pilots. And an open house or airshow is a chance to include locals, not just exploit them for max profit.

RickH · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:57 pm

Bill, I'm starting to fell a little hostile and envious. I'll be right up for my ride, I'm sure after I'll feel much better ! :lol:

T33driver · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:55 pm

Does that mean I have to stop the 300' departure-end closed pullups at military power over the Pebble Creek subdivision?

bax101 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:42 pm

when i was over at East Coast Aero Tech in Bedford Mass at Hanscom "aircraft noise" was a serious issue over there. The towns people who lived near by would come over 2 or 3 times a year to protest. But they wouldn't last to long. The towns people did get a curfew for out going flights at night. I guess there next fight was about the erosion factor over at the Paul Revere state park.

n5151ts · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:53 pm

I personally know of several. Airports are built...then houses are built. Hey folks the AIRPORT WAS HERE FIRST...it wasnt camo'd you knew it was here when you bought your house.....

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:20 pm

Hey Bill, that was my point in this thread...

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... 7&start=25

Is this some kind of WIX poster of the year canvassing you are on?

On topic:

One of the things I liked about my time in America was the open friendliness I recieved at most US airfields.In the UK, there's often a clear 'us and them' attitude and all too often visitors are treated with suspicion. I think Mike would also agree.

The heightened 'security' measures we are all dealing with don't help aviation's accessibility to the public, and the kid 'hangar rats' of yesteryear find it harder to get past the big fence and paranoid security put in on many GA airfields. If it's alien, it's scary.

That's the way it is, and while it's relieving to vent about whose fault it is, that achieves nothing. But we all have it within our own hands to make a positive difference. Take friends to your local airfield; get them up in a Cub or a Cessna if you can. Spitfire rides would probably be an adequate third.

Remember, everyone 'knows' (thanks to the TV) that airplanes always crash in flames and everyone dies. The environmental issues are becoming more highlighted, and the airline industry is doing a pathetic job of promoting the need and use of freight and airline flying; so it's up to us to put the facts of the fun and importance of aviation for all.

Share it or lose it, and we are all 'aviation ambassadors'.

This political broadcast on behalf of the aviation party is now over, normal service will resume shortly.

chico · **Posted:** Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:31 pm

If you haven't already, watch the documentary "One Six Right". It's a great film on the growth of aviation, mostly GA, and the story of Van Nuys Airport. It's a spectacular flick, and does raise the noise issue and how it's been handled.

it's a great movie for the old fliers and uninitiated alike. I can't recommend it enough.

6trn4brn · **Posted:** Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:58 am

My son's mother recently leased a place, very close to the Fort Wayne airport in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Part of the lease agreement that she signed stated that she was made aware of the close proximity to the airport runways and the noise that would be coming from same runways, day and night. As much as I hate to admit it, I try to find reasons to go over there, due to the CLOSE proximity :roll:

Some people get it and some don't...if you are gonna live near an airport, there is gonna be noise. AND, there are a few weirdos like me who would pay extra to live that close! :twisted:

Nothing quite like the smell of JP-4 in the morning with a cup of coffee

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:04 am

JDK, Mea Culpa, I did sort of steal the other topic. It seemed to me most of the respondents were griping about how bad the opposition was without any solutions of how to persuade or offset these folks. I got the part about Fullerton from a lecture by their manager at the AOPA convention a few years ago. I was impressed by how much goodwill could be gained with just a polite phone call.
Your post was insightful, as usual.

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Airport Noise, Everyone PLease Read

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