Warbird Information Exchange

I think Ray only did the wings and tail, as for the fuselage roundel that may be previous paint.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

That was my understanding, that Ray just did the wings. Any more photos of the aircraft?

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http://www.royalnavyhistoricflight.org.uk

Because there's other Swordfish out there with similar ones?

http://www.lacornicheoranaise.com/p4c_f ... rdfish.jpg

http://www.beehivehockey.com/images/his ... rdfish.jpg

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter2/swordfish.htm

There appears to be several variations of "official" roundel applied to the Swordfish in the historic photos I found, but I don't find any on the net of this particular aircraft, so who knows, maybe somewhere in the documentation that came with the Swordfish there's a picture of the paint that is being replicated showing that to be the correct application.

Gimme a little while. I'll take some pictures once it warms up some today and we open up the hangar doors for some light.

Gary

The roundels you show in the first two pics are the pre-war A-type roundels. The one on the CAF aircraft has a yellow outer section which was applied to A1-type roundels, but with different proportions. [Incidentally I note the last link quote Scale Aircraft Modelling's illustrator as being Mike Weeks - should, of course, be the late, very great Mike Keep - ironically he used to live about 100yds from where I'm typing this!]

On page 74 of Ray Sturtivant's The Swordfish Story under "Mediterranean 1941 - 1942" there is a photo of Swordfish I '5C' of 824 NAS after landing on W5844 ('4G') of 813 NAS on Eagle, 9 Feb 42. It would seem that the CAF aircraft has been done in the same scheme, but the photo clearly shows A1-type fuselage roundels.

Unfortunately roundels - be it the proportions, the type or the hues - are the markings most often applied incorrectly, which is a big shame.

EDIT: Renowned markings expert Ian Huntley wrote in Scale Aircraft Modelling July 1991: "Common to all British military aircraft, the FAA added a yellow outer ring to the fuselage roundel on 1 July 1940. RAF fighters had used the marking from a week or so earlier and had found it beneficial. Generally, it was applied around the existing [A-type] marking, often to a wider band thickness than was required, making for a well oversized final design [A1-type]".

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http://www.royalnavyhistoricflight.org.uk

Here are a few more. Note how doggone big the airplane is. You can get an idea of the size of it with the Beech 18 in the background and Mark in the foreground. This is a very cool airplane!........










Even though it's on display now, it's still not quite finished. Ray is finishing up the torpedo to go underneath it and he'll also be installing the under-wing bomb racks. We will also display the airplane with one wing folded to show folks how that mechanism works.

Gary

Peter - the smaller inner spot and thinner outer ring are certainly unusual (and non standard) - however I felt sure I had seen something similar recently and delving in to the books I have found several examples of almost identical roundels on Hurricanes of the late 1940 period (one of a batch sent to Malta and another 'Trop' version operating in Egypt). The example I had seen was actually the Alpine Fighter Collection's Hurricane which currently has this type of 'hybrid' roundel. My material on Swordfish is a little limited but it would not surprise me if there were similar examples on this type in late 1940.

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Warbird Colour - Authentic historic aircraft finishes http://www.warbirdcolour.co.uk

Gary

Thanks for the additional pics. The 'Fish certainly is a big aeroplane - something you find out when trying to clamber up into the cockpits, from where she looks even bigger!

Just reading again through Ian Huntley's notes (which are extremely detailed) and it seems that fin flash extending up to the horn balance was phased out around December 1940, being replaced by a cut down 24" square (8" equal stripes) version. At this point the aircraft were not specified as having the ROYAL NAVY titling on the rear fuselage, this marking only becoming applied from March 1941 when it and the serial was applied in 6" high characters replacing the original 8" serial. The dull red codes (as applied here) only came into use late in 1941.

Any idea who was consulted on the colour scheme?

Lee

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http://www.royalnavyhistoricflight.org.uk

Steve

See my comments above regarding Huntley's Column and the thickness of the yellow outer band.

Lee

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http://www.royalnavyhistoricflight.org.uk

No, I don't know much about the airplane, really. Perhaps Old Shep or FG1D Pilot could shed some light into this?

Gary

scheme looks good to me!

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Taylor Stevenson

Yeah, Taylor but you are an uninformed Yank !

Proud of it!

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Taylor Stevenson

And I'm a semi-informed Yank thanks to having a lot of guys I chat with on a frequent basis who live on the other side of the pond and are quite fond of Classic British aircraft like the Viscount - pronounced V[b]i[b]count -, Vanguard, Comet (only the late models and not the Nimrod), VC-10 (the original Queen of the Skies), etc, but I still think the Swordfish looks good, even if the Roundel is non-standard.

Hell people - it was war, there's a thing called field-applied markings and they were always 100% to spec. Just look at any mid-war pictures of US Navy aircraft in particular. Many had their original 3-tone scheme hand painted 1-tone dark blue and you could see it plain as day.

If you want to make it look really good and authentic put invasion stripes on it. I also think the shade of grey is wrong. Why can't people get it right knowing there are so many experts on this site! All you need to do is go down to the Swordfish store and check it out as to color and roundel application.