Warbird Information Exchange

I will leave it to the community to decide. Should Bill Greenwood's 7-day suspension be lifted?

This is the post that caused the suspension in the first place.

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Scott Rose
Editor-In-Chief/Webmaster
Warbirds Resource Group - Warbird Information Exchange - Warbird Registry

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Hi Scott,
A fair idea, but I think Randy's opinion is the only one that matters here (other than yours of course - as it's your forum!) rather than the anonymity of a poll where some people *might* work out of a bit of history with Bill.

As I said before, I don't always agree with Bill, but I'm very aware he's not able to put his point of view right now. For what it's worth, he dropped me a note, and I think it's worth sharing that he said: "...Fact is I wasn't trying to insult or attack Randy or even be humourous or political. Everyone seems to read that 2nd sentence different than I intended so I guess I wrote it badly, I was in a hurry...."

While some may not agree with Bill, I don't think he's ever tried to be malicious or personal. Randy's shown he's big enough to not take an inappropriate, and I think ill-considered, remark to heart, and Randy can post both serious and frivolous on the topic. My money it should be allowed to blow over.

But what would I know? I just drive a computer, and don't have any real or fake zapping buttons...

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Thanks James, I will take it into consideration.

_________________
Scott Rose
Editor-In-Chief/Webmaster
Warbirds Resource Group - Warbird Information Exchange - Warbird Registry

Be civil, be polite, be nice.... or be elsewhere.
-------------------------------------------------------
This site is brought to you with the support of members like you. If you find this site to be of value to you,
consider supporting this forum and the Warbirds Resource Group with a VOLUNTARY subscription
For as little as $2/month you can help ($2 x 12 = $24/year, less than most magazine subscriptions)
So If you like it here, and want to see it grow, consider helping out.



Thanks to everyone who has so generously supported the site. We really do appreciate it.

I agree, Scott. Bill should have known better but Randy's already blown it off and I believe Bill has something to say. Maybe he'll think a little more before he types in the future.

All I can say is that I was stunned by Bill's post and Randy's response to what he wrote. Both were totally unexpected. First, Bill is mature enough to know to pick a better way to inquire about civilian casualties. Second, Randy should have counted to 10 before posting what he did. I found both posts to be inflammatory, not in any way connected to the mature and thoughtful attributes both members possess and have shown at various times. I know that the subject is a very hard one and one which causes strong emotions on the part of anybody who has the intellect to consider such things. I also know that in the fog of war, sitting in another location that is NOT EXACTLY where the event actually occurred (as pertains to where both Randy and Bill currently reside) does not let you have the most objective view point of a set of circumstances to make clear decisions in the aftermath, or to make commentary on public information that is filtered through hundreds of other viewpoints before it is made public, and which is made public to aim at specific emotions.

And here is another bit of thought. I haven't been where Randy is right now. But years ago when I was a real man in a real uniform, I had been places where when I've come home I've had investigators waiting to ask me questions about human rights violations that I purportedly participated in. I can say from the bottom of my heart that I never participated in human rights violations. But the stupid questions totally blew my concentration and absolutely made me doubt why I was doing what I was doing. Randy doesn't need that right now. There is enough stress doing what he is doing. It came out in what he said. It is part of his job to consider what he is doing every day, and the safety of those around him and near what he is doing. Not only that, there is a complete command structure with intelligence officers, public affairs officers, and high echelon investigatory officers who are continually re-evaluating what he is doing- sometimes to his detriment. It is a personal purgatory to be in combat and have people behind you second guessing what you have done and making you doubt your own convictions. It sucks, it is totally distracting, and while I was only moving at the speed of shoe-leather on a patrol, it was so distracting to me that it was dangerous. I can't imagine being burdened by crap like this and flying at the speed he is flying. And that is from the people he works for. Now imagine an amateur pilot, not a professional soldier, asking you about how many dead babies you have killed? It is just the icing on the cake of a sugar sandwich you have to eat every day from the insecure command structure that sends you out to bomb targets and then second guesses themselves and you. Maybe I have a bad picture of what it is like to fly in combat today. If I am wrong, then somebody tell me. But even if I am, nothing like this is going to do Randy a bit of good in any sense of the word.

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REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

Although Bill's anti-war has we all clearly know.
I don't think he ment anything personal. I fact I'm
guessing Bill respects Randy has much has the rest
of us do. I also think Bill had a real question to ask
and pointing out to Randy that it wasn't directed at him since
the odds are that Randy never saw the program in question.
In wording his question though I'd give Bill a 1 outa 10.

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Don't touch my junk!!

Absolutely.

It happens, and however good you are, having anyone on your case, legitimate or not, can demoralise and distract the best of us.

There are areas best left alone, and I would not question Randy (or anyone in a similar position) about their current challenges, as it's not a fair position, although I do appreciate his choosing to share what he can with us. I sincerely hope he finishes his service safely so I can then argue the toss about it all. Time and place.

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

We can all guess the intent! But it is what it is.. Although Randy has forgiven, I'm sure many in the military or prior military are insulted by the remarks. Bill has been pushing the political envelope for some time with no recourse and now it has come to the point of suspension.. If more than half or more of the wix population agrees the 7 Day suspension should be upheld so the Integrity of the WIX code of conduct remains intact and to allow Bill time to reflect on his poor choice of words..

Be fair now B-W. We know you're long standing opinion of Bill.
I don't think you can be "Switzerland" in this issue.

I got a whopper of a letter from a Army LC attacking viciously
the AF pilots. If you want to see what a real attack is I'll post it
with both Scott and Randy's OK only. This jerk thought I was in the AF so
launched a attack on that service.

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Don't touch my junk!!

When I originally read the message I read it as two pilots/friends poking fun at each other, and I think that's how Bill meant it to come across. I went back and re-read the comment and can definitely see how and understand why Randy was upset, but he has put it behind him so I think we should as well.

Just my $.02

Your correct, I don't think very much of Bill Greenwood However I exercise restraint in promoting my point of view on other people. All members should exercise the same restraint in order to maintain civility. Bill has contiually made a point of "Spicing up the Conversation" on the Board. I would say to that end he has accomplished his mission. However, using history as a guide Scott will relente and Your beloved Mr. Greenwood will probably be with us again by the end of the day.

I met Bill at Oshkosh this year, and we had a very nice time together at the EAA cookout. When us WIXER's get together everything that we argue about here seems to go away, and we all just have a good time. I do have to say that I feel that this was in poor taste for two reasons. Attacking Randy (even though he did not mean t to be that way) still sucks. Also this was a thread about the F-15 fleet operation that was being taken to political directions. I say a week to cool every one off is good. Speaking as someone that has put his foot in his mouth before, I am sure that Bill feels bad, as he should. Now he should chill for a week.
One thing I want you guys to know is that even though we don't see eye to eye all of the time, there isn't anyone here I wouldn'y buy a beer for if we met up in person. Even when we disagree, I try to keep it respectful.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

ALLRIGHT !!! FREE BEER FOR ALL ON MUSTANGDRIVER !!!

Just be careful that he doesn't slip in any of the NMUSAF Koolaid he's so fond of !

fighting on the internet is like finishing 6th place...in the end there is only one winner. My comment was far more inflammatory in that thread...but then I have been in combat and know the harsh realities of war. Seems to me that people were expressing points and I'm ALWAYS on the side of pilots. I even met Bill once years ago in Salt Lake City. I was working with Lefty Gardner on his P-38 and Bill had the spit there with an EXTREMELY tired engine.... everyone needs to take a step back and move on.

I think if we all heard in person what Bill said, the inflection would reflect a little friendly kidding toward Randy. But I understand how Randy could take it the other way. I respect both men and their opinions. I honestly don't think Bill meant any ill will towards Randy. That's the trouble with conversing with a keyboard.

Steve G