Warbird Information Exchange

I think Rick H hit it on the head.

_________________
Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

Me so horney!

Don't be surprised if they simply re-org/re-name & re-emerge...

_________________
Daddy always said, "If yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough" and I'm one tough sonofagun!

I'd think every fighter plane owned by the govmnt is an experimental, restricted catagory aircraft. I don't think any of them sport an "N" number.

True the FAA has nothing to do with the military aircraft and do not have N numbers. However There are businesses flying aircraft today like kfir,hunter,Starfighters, Albatross, Skyhawks that operate in performance of a commercial business with aircraft that are registered under FAR Part 91 experimental/exhibition/r&D.

With that said, my understanding, and why i asked the question, was that the FAA was no longer allowing (not sure if that means today or at sometime in the future) these assets to charge for their aircraft services. Effectively grounding the compnies until the government assumes flight authority (I assume it would be the government - military) This informatiion is 3rd hand and i wanted to see if anyone on here had a reference point on the faa site on this. I also wonder how this will effect the airshowbusiness?

Vulture the way i read the FARs is that R&D is a category used by someone contracting with another private company. ie: You have an aircraft that has a cpability needed by, say Raytheon for example. You contract with them to test one of their products for them. That's different than if they are working a govt contract and the Navy contracts with you to support their testing of the same item. Then you are flying as a public aircraft in the support of a Navy contract. At that point the FAA has no interest or jurisdiction as long as you are flying under contract for a govt entity. The govt entity you are contracted with is now your governing authority.

Somebody please correct me if I have it wrong

This brings up an interesting question (interesting to me at least! ) - can Experimental Amateur-Built aircraft be used in non-passenger carrying Part 135 operations? Like small cargo?

I ask because I see these home-built turbine cargo-type planes that look similar to Caravans & wonder what niche it will fill...

Also have odd ideas about funding some small-time aviation kicks!

_________________
Daddy always said, "If yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough" and I'm one tough sonofagun!

Ernie, Experimental- Amatuer built have different rules forbidding commercial use. Experimental Exhibition has another seperate set of rules to play by.

Rick

Rick,

That makes logical sense to me.

Why would someone build these things though? Looks like Caravan-like specs:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-Com ... dZViewItem

A quick skim through the FARs on Part 135 & I can see no prohibitions on using Experimental Aircraft. In fact, a search for "experimental" and/or "amateur built" in the FARs turns up precious little.

_________________
Daddy always said, "If yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough" and I'm one tough sonofagun!

Flight Systems (Now BAE, I believe) operates 4 F-4 Phantoms with "N" numbers (unless they've turned them in) that are owned by the USAF. Numbers are: N420FS, N403FS, N420FS, and N423FS.

_________________
Bob

Old SAR, those aircraft are bailed to BAE for use in govt projects, usually R&D. When the company decides that they are finished with them they are turned back in to the loaning entity or scrapped on site. This happened at Mojave in 1999 with two D models that were bailed to Avtel.

RickH is right - most aircraft flying on govt contracts are operated under the "Public Category". I flew several aircraft for a govt research lab that were operated under public category. The FAA has no jurisdiction over the aircraft...no annuals, no AD compliance, nada. You don't even have to observe IFR minimums...

However, when the FAA guy did show up and try to exercise authority, he said, for purposes of currency, we were not allowed to log the time flown in public category aircraft, and we could only fly them if we were on "a mission".

All of our aircraft had valid N-numbers.

Interesting, all of the NASA aircraft at Ellington and other NASA facilities are flown as public aircraft with N numbers and I know those guys log their time. I know this because one of the pilots I've worked with presented his logbook to the FAA and was promptly issued an OV-10 all types LOOA to add to his civilian multi engine commercial license.

I suspect it is like the Operating Limitations on Exp Exhibition aircraft...it's all about that particular FAA guy's interpretation of the rules.

BTW, I logged all my time in those aircraft.