Warbird Information Exchange

Having sat here all morning, taking it easy, watching all the behind the scenes bonuses of Peter Jackson's 'King Kong' and having seen all the extras on the extended versions of all three 'Lord of the Rings' movies, I have to say that I am really looking forward to the new version of 'The Dambusters' even if it is not being directed, per se, by Jackson himself. Christian Rivers, the animation supervisor from all three 'LOTR' and 'Kong' movies, is taking the helm on the Dambusters movie, and what with Peter Jackson looking over his shoulder on everything and Jackson's attention to detail and knowledge of aviation history from WW1 on up, I have to feel that the whole project is in VERY good hands and will come off very well, nothing like the recent 'Pearl Harbor' disaster where even the SOUNDS of the engines on the planes were wrong (one of my pet peeves with that movie). Obviously, and as has been brought up before, the problem with the name of Guy Gibson's dog in the film will be an interesting dilemma, but overall it should be a minor factor in the whole of the film (for those of you not in the know, it is basically the equivalent of a derogatory name for a black person and starts with the letter N, but I shall not utter it hear as I do not say that word....nor shall I write it). I would be interested in hearing other's opinions on what they think the movie will be like, how familiar you folks are with Jackson's previous works, and just opinions on the whole production in general. Will it be a worthwhile film, possibly even one of the war greats of all time like 'Saving Private Ryan' and such? I think just by looking at the richness of 'King Kong', it quite possibly will be!

Mark

_________________
Mark Morris

....and have a look at this link for more of Jackson's insight into the filming and such...interesting stuff...

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/30076

Mark

_________________
Mark Morris

Why?

The dog's name was Nigger, one of the code words on Operation Chastise was Nigger so why should the correct name not be used?

I appreciate that the name Nigger was/is a derogatory name but is historical accurate and can not see any reason to ignore the fact!

Tony

_________________
...and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in Space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth!

I would be very interested in reading the thoughts of people of color on the use of the name today.

G'day folks,

Here is my opinion. It is my opinion only, it is not binding and I don 't expect everyone to agree!

Peter Jackson is bringing the Dambuster story to the screen with the detail and effort that he brings to all of his movies. He is taking a risk in making a war movie, as these are not big-ticket moneymakers these days. Most war movies these days are movies that happen to be in a wartime setting, such as Pearl Harbor which was a crappy love story with planes.

If bringing the Dambuster story to the attention of the world means that the name of Guy Gibson's dog has to be changed then so be it. It doesn't change the story of what happened on the night of May 17, 1943. When it comes to the crunch, the story is far bigger than the name of a dog.

The name of the dog does not have much of a bearing on the story of 617 squadron. Operation Chastise was a huge story, and frankly, it would be as dramatic whether Gibson had named his dog 'Spot'.

In the case of the dog, the name Nigger is innocuous. The problem with such a name is that it has a loaded meaning and connections with persecution and hate crime (even if totally innocent with the dog). Frankly, it isn't detrimental to the story if the dog's name is changed.

It seems to me that the topic Guy Gibson's dog's name is the biggest talking point when this movie is discussed. I follow a number of discussion boards, and it comes up every time.

History is written by the victor in any war, so every presentation of a given historical event is loaded to a degree. There are disagreeable points to any event, and most of these are not emphasised in the account.

I'll wait till I see the movie, so I can see how the name of the dog is handled. I'll then decide whether this has had any bearing on the story of the presentation of the events.

Again, this is my opinion only. I don't expect people to agree.

Cheers,
Matt

Hi Matt,
I don't intend to get involved in any heated discussion and appreciate that we are all entitled to our opinions but given that the Dogs' name was also the code word for breaching the Mohne Dam, the name does actually carry significant importance in this case.

Should the code words be ignored or changed to something like Snigger or even Trigger or should we really allow the Film Industry to change history to suit current sensibilities?

_________________
...and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in Space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth!

What about the length of the movie?

Judging by the LOTR movies and King Kong, I'm afraid that Peter Jackson is unable to tell any story in less than 3 hours.

A tight, fast-paced retelling of the 617th Squadron story around 1 hour and 45 minutes long, without any egregious re-writing of history (e.g.- it's OK to change the dog's name, but don't give us any female pilots!) would be nice.

I'm not optimistic, though.

This has been the case since the film industry began. Pick your favorite war film and compare it to historical reality. I'll concede that the PC-crowd has taken the spin to new levels but historical accuracy never makes it through to the final cut. Pearl Harbor or U-571, anyone?

Even Band of Brother was distorted to make the story more dramatic. Remember Albert Blythe? Supposedly shot in the neck by a sniper and lingered until 1948. Mr. Blythe not only didn't die, he continued to serve through Korea and into the Vietnam war.

In the end, these are films meant as entertainment for a general audience. They are not documentaries.

As "Hollywooding" a story goes. I also call to your attention, "The Longest Day" and "Band of Brothers". As any guide in the D-Day or BoB tours will point out..."Not so fast there, Hollywood". But...as they say in journalism, "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story." We learned a whole bunch of stuff from our tour guides that totally contradict what you saw in those productions. Ya' want some of it, let me know.

Mudge the enlightened

_________________
Land of the free because of the brave

So I guess I'm confused....I gathered from one post that the movie would probably be too LONG (hey, for my $8 or $10 these days, I WANT a long movie!), but I could'nt detect whether any of you are LOOKING FORWARD to the movie or NOT. The Dog issue has reared up again, NOT the topic of discussion of this thread, but bound to appear anyhow. I'm the last one to be PC, I hate it, but the name is GOING to offend some folks no matter how you slice it and draw negative attention to the movie if used, so I think Jackson has a bomb in hand if he does use it, but we'll see what he does. Any way you look at it, I can't wait for this film.

Mark

_________________
Mark Morris

Corsair...yep...he's damned (by the PC crowd) if he does and damned (by the purists) if he doesn't. And YES, I'm looking forward to the movie. I don't care if it's 3 hours long. Say 2 1/2 hours of Lanc flying and 1/2 an hour of extraneous stuff.
Anyone seen a cast list yet? That'll be interesting too.
Any ideas as to who would be well cast in a particular role?
I'd like to see Will Farrell or Jerry Seinfeld as Guy Gibson and maybe Woody Allen or Robin Williams as Barnes-Wallace.

Mudge the outrageouos

_________________
Land of the free because of the brave

Honestly I'm not sure!

I guess that my personal feeling is that Dambusters doesn't need to be remade but any film, on any Bomber Command raid, would be welcome and could equally tell of the struggles the ground crew, aircrew and civilians went through as much as a new Dambusters would do.

Will I go and see the film, no but would probably watch the DVD release!



Sorry, guilty as charged, I just get wound up about historical inaccuracies, regardless of what the subject is

_________________
...and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in Space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth!

How about Christopher Lloyd as Barnes Wallis?

2.3 Billion Jigawatts will bring the Sorpe down , Marty!

Any idea on when it will be released?
Is it very far away?