Soccer War War Birds

Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:34 am

I think #2 and #3 just about cover it. However, I think that the motivation that moved these men to fight what they perceived to be evil ( and subsequently proven right ) might temper any negative connotations usually associated with the word mercenary.

Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:06 pm

Stoney wrote:I don't know if Bob Love ever shot down anything in that SA war, but I do know he was there and a good friend of Archie Baldocchi. I have had dinner with both and crewed for Bob at Reno for four years. I heard both talk about being there and both flying doing that war.

Yes, he and Archie flew together quite a bit before the 1969 war.

T J Johansen wrote:If I remember correctly there is a photo in Hagedorn/ Dienst's Latin American Mustang book of Bob Love sitting on the wing of a Salvadorean 51.

I don't recall seeing that photo you're discussing, but I do have photos of all five mercenaries (including Love) in Ilopango during the war that I intend to publish.

Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:03 pm

FYI... A very good friend has confirmed that he has a tape recording of Archie and Bob at Reno (air races) laughing and talking all about their exploits during this war. Including Archie talking about being "asked to Leave" as well as Bob's Kills. His comment was that there are no real records of the real events... and it's best to let it go. They of course were not even supposed to be down there.

That is all.

Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:09 pm

Was one side considered the democratic party in the soccer war, are were they just flying for adventure and/or pay. I wonder what the pay was?The Eagle Squadron and Flying Tiger boys were gettng paid by a foreign govt. so they were mercenaries; but they were fighting for the good guys, at least as Americans see it. Our govt. may have opposed it as a neutrality issue, but they thought our guys were on the right side. I don't think pay was much of a factor for the Eagle guys.

Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:25 pm

Bill, my recollection is that the Eagle Squadron guys flew for whatever their respective rank paid in the RAF. They were members sworn into the RAF.

The Tigers were under individual contracts for a monthly salary with bonuses for confirmed kills.

The two scenarios could not be more different.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:30 am

RickH wrote:I think #2 and #3 just about cover it. However, I think that the motivation that moved these men to fight what they perceived to be evil ( and subsequently proven right ) might temper any negative connotations usually associated with the word mercenary.

I might pour gasoline on the fire here, but are we so sure that these guys were motivated just by the mere thought of fighting the curse of the earth, or could there be some influence of boyish lust for the glory of battle, as seen in teenagers whose only combat experience is seeing older relatives in their dress uniform and read about war heroes of the past? I'm not saying that these guys were not "good guys" but maybe we should remove the glory put on their head, and make them more human.

Bill Greenwood wrote:Was one side considered the democratic party in the soccer war, are were they just flying for adventure and/or pay. I wonder what the pay was?The Eagle Squadron and Flying Tiger boys were gettng paid by a foreign govt. so they were mercenaries; but they were fighting for the good guys, at least as Americans see it. Our govt. may have opposed it as a neutrality issue, but they thought our guys were on the right side. I don't think pay was much of a factor for the Eagle guys.

I too wonder what kind of "retainer" these guys got. A guy I once knew who had flown (as a mercenary) in Congo and later Biafra told me they got $1000,- a month in Congo around 1965-66. In Biafra they received £1000,- a month in 68-69. Just how much was that as compared to ordinary salaries in said timeframe?

John-Curtiss Paul wrote:FYI... A very good friend has confirmed that he has a tape recording of Archie and Bob at Reno (air races) laughing and talking all about their exploits during this war. Including Archie talking about being "asked to Leave" as well as Bob's Kills. His comment was that there are no real records of the real events... and it's best to let it go. They of course were not even supposed to be down there.

That is all.

And an interesting anecdote it is. However, can you accept the possibility that these guys did try to embellish the story just a little? Maybe fuelled by a drink or two in the evening?

T J

Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:47 am

T J Johansen wrote:I might pour gasoline on the fire here, but are we so sure that these guys were motivated just by the mere thought of fighting the curse of the earth, or could there be some influence of boyish lust for the glory of battle, as seen in teenagers whose only combat experience is seeing older relatives in their dress uniform and read about war heroes of the past? I'm not saying that these guys were not "good guys" but maybe we should remove the glory put on their head, and make them more human.

As for the Americans that fought in El Salvador, remember that Love was more or less friends with Baldocchi, who was the one specifically empowered by the FAS to go buy Mustangs and hire mercenaries in the US. So, there was a friendship aspect to things as well. One of the mercenaries actually remained in El Salvador for quite a long time after the war was over, living with friends he'd made during the short time he flew with the FAS.

It was NOT just a financial motive.

T J Johansen wrote:I too wonder what kind of "retainer" these guys got. A guy I once knew who had flown (as a mercenary) in Congo and later Biafra told me they got $1000,- a month in Congo around 1965-66. In Biafra they received £1000,- a month in 68-69. Just how much was that as compared to ordinary salaries in said timeframe?

The FAS mercenaries were paid per sortie, with bonuses for shooting down FAH aircraft. There was no 'retainer' per se.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:36 am

Randy Haskin wrote:
T J Johansen wrote:I might pour gasoline on the fire here, but are we so sure that these guys were motivated just by the mere thought of fighting the curse of the earth, or could there be some influence of boyish lust for the glory of battle, as seen in teenagers whose only combat experience is seeing older relatives in their dress uniform and read about war heroes of the past? I'm not saying that these guys were not "good guys" but maybe we should remove the glory put on their head, and make them more human.

As for the Americans that fought in El Salvador, remember that Love was more or less friends with Baldocchi, who was the one specifically empowered by the FAS to go buy Mustangs and hire mercenaries in the US. So, there was a friendship aspect to things as well. One of the mercenaries actually remained in El Salvador for quite a long time after the war was over, living with friends he'd made during the short time he flew with the FAS.

It was NOT just a financial motive.

When I opened the can of gasoline I was referring to the Eagle Squadron/ Flying Tigers side of it. I think they did a great job, but remain dubious of the bit where all of them did it for the right moral reasons, and nothing else. I can see that some guys got deeper into the scene than others. For instance, one of the pilots who flew in Biafra had earlier trained Biafran students and had an affection for the people. however he did get hired by a foreign government, and thus becomes a mercenary. I don't for a minute believe that all mercenaries are rogues, while everyone who fights for his own country is a rightous gentleman.

T J

Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:17 am

to get back to the real topic - i.e. warbirds - here are three photos I just found on a slide auction site:

FAH606 F4U-5NL Bu # 124486

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/corsairr ... 24486.html

FAH612 F4U-4 Bu # 97288

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/corsairr ... 97288.html

is this Bu # 97280 ?

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/corsairr ... 97280.html

These F4U's still carry their FAH markings but have the US civil reg's added.

Martin

Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:53 am

Swiss Muntangs,
The US registry is because the Corsairs were sold to private persons and are been flown back to the US. Airport, probably Belize.

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:53 am

corsairdude wrote:Swiss Muntangs,
The US registry is because the Corsairs were sold to private persons and are been flown back to the US. Airport, probably Belize.

that was obvious :wink:

but thanks

Martin

Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:52 pm

Pictures were probably taken in the US. These would be part of the batch flown back by Howard Pardue, et al ? There were seven total if I remember correctly.

Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:22 pm

Swiss Mustangs wrote:is this Bu # 97280 ?

Yes it is.For some reason the number 619 was applied before the ferry flight.More pictures later.

Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:33 pm

Were these the Birds that were flown back to the USA in a Cat and Mouse Game with the FAA ? Heard somewhere that their was a group of em that were flown into Harlington Texas and then flown out just as fast so the FFA would not ground them is this true or just Airport Foke lore ?

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:59 pm

The town is Harlingen. Those aircraft came through Houston and I know some of them wound up in Breckinridge, TX. Don't know if all of them went there, though. Don't know about any cat and mouse with the FAA. There was a full article on the bringbacks in Air Classics a long long time ago.