Warbird Information Exchange

I think Dan hit the nail on the head; our culture has blurred the lines between "hero" and "celebrity". It is human nature to want to categorize and classify everthing; therefore we have a hard time accepting things for what they are ... because doing so might take more time and prove complicated.

For some reason we find it easier to rag Duke Cunningham for being a flawed hero than recognizing him for what he is: a war hero who made life choices that landed him in jail and tarnished his celebrity.

If my son wanted to recognize Duke as an aviation hero, I would ensure that he admired the untarnished value in Duke's combat bravery and the disciplined way in which he learned his weapon system and executed his mission ... but I would also ensure that he understood that there are important reasons why we would not celebrate the man. I would hope that taking the time to discuss the differences would be a welcome alternative from our habit of compressing everything into a quickly absorbed sound byte and nice, neat label.

The distinction is between a hero who performs one (or more) heroic acts and a culture who wants to label that person a "hero" for life. It ain't that easy.

Ken

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"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."

A definiton may vary, but I will give you three examples, one thing in common, they didn't need to kill anyone to be brave enough to risk their lives. Dr. Martin Luther King!!! Next, two helicopter pilots from Vietnam War. I don't have the names, one was a conscientious objector and would not fight, but he repeatedly flew a rescue copter into combat and I believe won the Medal of Honor. The other helicopter pilot was flying over My Lai and saw the massacre below and landed to stop US troops from killing any more civilains. He also was decorated.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Gotta say, Bill, your definition comes a lot closer to mine as well. I can't help but give a lot more respect to the guys who risk their lives on a daily basis to save others. Paramedics, firefighters, and policemen tend to get my gratitude and some I think of as heroes. King stands on a level above almsot any other modern hero I can think of. He truly stood up and gave his life for millions of others. Now THAT was balls.

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

How about a totaly different story. This guy becomes heroic after the fact.

A close friend of my wife's family , and someone I became very close to, was a criminal in Kansas , mid 30's.

He had a stolen car ring, that was successful enough to have the local mob invite him to leave. He came to California, where he was a confidence man (Went to see the new movie The Sting with him, he knew EVERY game before they showed what it was! and it was worse than seeing an aviation picture with one of us!)BTW- his specialty was the punch board, sales and follow up. When the US was gearing up for WWII with CCPTP, he got phoney college transcripts to get in.

Trained in a Taylorcraft and ??went on to becme a Lt. USAAF. His age kept him from becoming a combat pilot and was assigned to Transports. He immediately got glider training.

His experience, as related to me, was that the miltary was very corrupt and not fair. Everyone cheated or lied to get what they wanted. Being the kind of guy he was , he embarked upon a plan to get others what they needed. His specialty was getting people with deficient physical problems passed the doctors. If a fellow trainee failed a medical, eye exam, or hearing test , he was allowed to retest later. a second failure meant washing out. Matt had noticed the examiners did not recognize repeat faces, they only looked at the paperwork. So for a fee, Matt, who was in great shape, would take whatever exam was needed. He supplimented these activities with games of "chance"(NEVER shoot dice on a bunk!!). He helped one fellow who was color blind, it nearly killed him later.

Later, in England he was twice lined up for ops (June 6th, and Holland) ready to take off when the need for more flights was cancelled. Army did everything alphabetically. When those pilots that had survived the Normandy ops came back, they went back into the lineup alphabetically!
hence his view that military was unfair. His name was Mathews.

While in England, he started buying money. At the time troops were being paid in "INVASION MONEY", not US Greenbacks. it was soon discovered that if sent home to his wife, the invasion script was accredited at face value by US banks. There soon arose a disparity between face value in England vs real US money. Wife would send ten dollars US, which would buy, as much as 50 in invasion money. That fifty was sent home to be banked and ten or more real sent, again. Although eventualy declared illegal, my friend made a killing right up to the end of the war in Europe.

Post war he changed his ways, became a minister and eventually agreed to perform a marriage for my wife and I. A truly good man, wise councilor and friend, when I knew him and will always be a hero to me.

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Charles Neely

I also beleive that a hero can be anyone who you choose to be. For example, Dale Earnhardt Sr. was and is a hero to me. He wasnt in a war, but yet, I looked up to him as my hero figure in a sport that I loved.[/quot

Been mine too since 1982!

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Long Live the N3N-3 "The Last US Military Bi-Plane" 1940-1959
Badmouthing Stearmans on WIX since 2005

Great post. As a Vietnam war historian, I consider ANYONE who served in ANY conflict a Hero. They may not consider themselves hero's. I have heard the " I was just doing my job" But for a bomber pilot to go out and drop bombs and it end up being trees. Then finding a good target and told by your govt, You cant go there.
"well i did not do anything except drive a truck" I have heard that too. This comming from guys that would drive out of the base in truck full of stuff to wage war. Dirt roads full of potholes, dust and heat. Even the equipment was tested to its limits but the enemy was out there, behind the bushes and trees waiting. Waiting for the enemy hauling 2000 gallon tank trailers. Aiming there RPG's at the big white star on the door. They were in the Kill zone! AMBUSH AMBUSH AMBUSH, would call out when the Convoy commander had finally seen the cloud of smoke 2 mi up the road. Some times 10 min would pass before aircover would arrive on scene. The enemy would be gone! Drivers would be dead, equipment and supplies lost! Only when a unit level commander stepped up and took the matter into his own hands and came up with the "Hardened Convoy Concept" or know as GUN TRUCKS. This lesson would be learned again 35 yrs later. " I just drove a truck". Not hardly.

I just wish more americans felt the way I do.

Sorry for the rant.

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Long Live the N3N-3 "The Last US Military Bi-Plane" 1940-1959
Badmouthing Stearmans on WIX since 2005

I'm not sure exactly what makes a hero, but I know one when I see one, and I had the pleasure of taking one for a ride in the Skyraider today at the Mexico MO airshow. It seems unbeliveable that John was shot in the head by a sniper in Iraq less a year ago. He is an amazing young man that has 3 purple hearts. A bit about his story can be found at the links below.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/2007/Jan ... ews002.asp

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?sec ... chive=true

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Eric

"I spent most of my money on alcohol, women and skyraiders....and the rest of it I just wasted."

CRS syndrome. It's a vicous cycle we go through ever day. Can't remember how to unsnap your helmet strap so when a round hits it won't twist your head off. Can't remember not to drive unarmored vehicles throught the center of Mogudishu. Can't remember to drive unarmored vehicles through the middle of Baghdad. Can't remember not to stand looking INTO the compound while you're in a guard tower...
It's not just the officers, though their screwups cost the most deaths. Everybody has that CRS syndrome, and it occurs right up to the day you leave the zone. It's just part of the game, I guess. Tired, hungry, grumpy, and just been yelled at. Then you get shot at--a few rounds over your head. The adrenaline makes you dumb as a bag of hammers if you let it.

And then there's the brass in the puzzle palace. They're so busy licking thier own balls that they don't have time to care about the little things ...like gun trucks and whether we're sending enough shooters in so the support personel dont have to do a duty they aren't trained for.

Every day of every war it happens. I guess just surviving your own commanders is a large art of the adversity...

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."