Warbird Information Exchange

I had a "hero" come visit me today out of the blue. He is an 82 year old gentleman who flew as a telegraphist air gunner with the Royal Navy in WW2. He flew Swordfish, Albacores, Blackburn Shark and a combat tour with 845NAS on TBF-1 Avengers against the Japanese. A modest man with lots of jokes who stared death in the face. He just stood in front of my Avenger and looked without saying a word then he said to his son [Vietnam/Gulf War Navy vet] and I - you know, when taking a piss out of the side door one had to be very careful!!!!! We all laughed very hard. He said I'm happy now......

_________________
..defeat is never an option!

I don't even watch the media so how can I go by that?

I got a feeling I am going to be critizied here for the way I view my heroes. Maybe some of you have had perfect lives. Well, I haven't so I have had to look at the history of heroes to help me through things. I actually write about heroes a lot since I have been studying the subject.

I have many heroes. Many of them were at Pearl Harbor. A time when they did not know what was happening. All they knew was they better do their job and that it might save some lives. And I like to think that it did save some lives. My cousin is a fire chief and I look up to him. Bob Hoover is another hero and I look up to him also. If you look at my signature that has been up for months shows another thing that I admire. Someone once asked me what I think of pilots. I said, "pilots that fly for the common good of mankind". Im not religious but that is what I believe in. I am sorry some of you do not agree or understand that. Since we are all here with the same interests I thought you would understand.

Regards,
Nathan

_________________
Shop the Airplane Bunker At
www.warbirdbunker.com

The guys, all of them, who dare to put on the uniform, from the dishwasher to the hair on fire combat guys and the police, fire, feds everyone in between who has the guts to stand up for their fellow man, to protect and serve them at personal risk to life and limb...have my utmost respect and admiration.

They are all heroes to me.

_________________
Zane Adams
There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Join us for the Texas Warbird Report on WarbirdRadio.com!
http://www.facebook.com/WarbirdRadio
Listen at http://www.warbirdradio.com

I also beleive that a hero can be anyone who you choose to be. For example, Dale Earnhardt Sr. was and is a hero to me. He wasnt in a war, but yet, I looked up to him as my hero figure in a sport that I loved.

I agree Zane.

_________________
Shop the Airplane Bunker At
www.warbirdbunker.com

Nathan, you wrote:

I don't even watch the media so how can I go by that?

and:

Maybe some of you have had perfect lives. Well, I haven't so...


I, for one, was enjoying the variety of the differing views. Even yours.

I think we all tend to think of ourselves as a "minority" view. It seems to be the nature of electronic media, which IS INFLUENCING you right now. Or am I reading more into your post than is actually there...?

I don't think the general consensus is that anyone here is out to flame you or your beliefs. To the contrary, I tend to believe your sentiments are more "in tune" to the average view, on this particular sight, than my own.

_________________
Charles Neely

Nathan, I'm not picking on you, just using what you said for commentary.



Interesting choice of words. "Favorite" when it comes to heroes, indicates that the definition of a hero is very subjective. Standing up for the rights of others, higher standard and nothing less, giving up dreams to protect others, a man who could do anything and prove anything. Well how about Gandhi? Comparing Doolittle to Gandhi is probably a stretch in many people's minds. But they both, through their actions, lived according to what you wrote.




Doolittle was a consummate womanizer in his life. Gandhi was a strict but understanding moralist who lived a life of restraint not for anybody else's benefit, but for his own. It is a side of him that not even many Hindu's know about. So do we ignore the faults of Doolittle and his kind and put him on a pedestal and create an idea of who he was to subvert his true life? Unfortunately, that is what is done on a regular basis. We forget about the total humanity of a person, and make them into an ikon with no emotions, decisions, just the fate to be a hero.

How about Charles Lindbergh? Prior to WWII, and even up until the beginning of the war, he was a leader in the isolationist movement. He resigned his commission from the AAC in 1941, for numerous reasons, but mainly over Lend-Lease. After that, he was blocked from returning to the military. There is a big revisionist movement to paint him as a military hero during WWII, but his political actions prior to the war cost him his chance to do real combat. Moral choice and FDR's spurning aside, when he traveled to the field, he was greeted as a hero by the people he met. He was the earliest and foremost aviation hero to many of the people he came across. How did they think of his moral choices to go against the war at the time? Did it matter a that point? I don't think it meant anything to the airmen at that time.

Making ethical decisions is not easy. And in the context of changing situations, you run the risk of becoming a person outcast from the mainstream. These decisions are the very basis of a person going down the road to becoming a hero, but are the same ones which can later undo you in a very public eye. So I am advising against not paying attention to the human side of a hero- there is more to be learned about than just the heroic actions which often become the total sum of the public view of a person.

_________________
REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

Lindbergh is the very definition of a modern hero, with all the warts along with the honours.

It is amazing that people will, to this day publically deify him while others seek to ruin his image. He is the embodyment of the first international media hero, and we've all come to believe basic tennants of his writings and words as absalute truth. He is one humoungus paradox!

_________________
Charles Neely

Lindbergh is the very definition of a modern hero, with all the warts along with the honours.

It is amazing that people will, to this day publically deify him while others seek to ruin his image. He is the embodyment of the first international media hero, and we've all come to believe basic tennants of his writings and words as absalute truth. He is one humoungus paradox!

_________________
Charles Neely

Should we really find out about the personnal lives of heroes?

Is there a fine line that needs to be drawn?

Say after the war Doolittle became a rapist. I would no longer look up to him.


cheers,
Nathan

_________________
Shop the Airplane Bunker At
www.warbirdbunker.com

Most people that are labelled "Heros" never chose to be that at all.
First and foremost, they are real people that came from all walks of life .
Some lived honest simple lives , some not so clean or straight.
To expect them to all of a sudden change themselves into a role model that others want to peceive them as is unfair. In most cases that is a burden most of us would never want.
We have gone over this topic in past posts. In the case of Pappy Boyington, he may or may not have been a good " hero role model" but if you read his book it is easy to see the man new his limitations and did not try to be something he was not.
The moral of his book says it all quote " show me a hero and I'll prove he is a bum".
Now , before anyone gets up in arms about that statement, think about it. I think all he is trying to say is "heros" are human too and pedestals are easy to fall from.
An end thought: not that he is a hero but Elvis Presley was once asked about his public image and said " the image is one thing but the man is another"
or something along those lines.

_________________
...it was a plane adrift beneath the moon moving serenely thru beams like an angel of the night .....fair as a song ........aloof from mortal dreams

Nathan


Is there a line to be drawn?


yes and HELLYES.

Manufactured heros are not always real heros. I think that's the point of Clint Eastwoods "Flags of Our Fathers", not to say that we should be getting our history from the movies, but it does provide a context for a view of nationally touted men who were perhaps not up to the challenge of what being those "heroes" actually meant or was, unrealistically(??) expected of them. I think first and foremost the charactors had no idea that their salability and PR value could be based on a series of falsehoods. Was clint wrong inthe factul details? I don't know, but I believe it is within the realm of possiblity.

Doolittle and lindbergh can be heros in the context of their deeds alone. did they walk on water? No, but they DID offer a life time of accomlishments, worthy of note. Should we pattern our lives after theirs? Given their respective warts, I certainly wouldn't think it would be wise to emulate EVERY portion of their lives. How about their ethics? this where the line gets harder to define.

For some its seems almost viseral to wrap their heros in the flag and to heck with any other view. Others are more cerebral and wonder why the latest someone is being thrust upon them.

_________________
Charles Neely

I work every day with my #1 hero. My 82 year old Dad, who still comes to work every day at 6:30am. He's flown since 1941, flew P-40's and B-17's, built two airplanes, and never put a scratch on one. Still flies with me occasionally. I'm very fortunate to have worked daily for the last thirty years with one of my heroe's. I also list Bob Hoover, Art Scholl, and Duane Cole as my personal heroes.

Steve G

I agree. But it doesn't mean people can't look up to them. Which is the point I am trying to make.

I understand the heroes people label will have faults and that is fine with me. Do I want to know about their faults? Probably not.



Cheers,
Nathan

_________________
Shop the Airplane Bunker At
www.warbirdbunker.com

Very interesting and lively discussion!

To me, a hero is someone who selflessly places themselves in harm's way in an attempt to ensure the safety of others, without doing it for personal gain or seeking fame or notoriety.

I consider firefighters, EMTs, law enforcement officers, and those who serve in the military to be heroes. They risk their lives every day to keep the rest of us safe. Their working conditions are demanding and their paychecks are nowhere near as big as they ought to be. And yet, every fireman, cop, and soldier that I've ever asked do not consider themselves to be heroes.

I consider a private citizen who risks his or her life at the spur of the moment to save someone else to be a hero, such as the passer-by who sees someone fall into a flood-swollen creek and jumps in to save them, or the average Joe who rushes into a burning home to save the elderly resident from certain death. They don't do it because they expect any accolades. They do it spontaneously, without even thinking about it. And just like the firefighters, cops, and soldiers, they'll tell you that they're not heroes.

Perhaps there are two kinds of heroes: the "traditional" heroes, and the "everyday" heroes.

Just my two cents' worth.

Cheers!

_________________
Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida