Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:47 am
http://www.thistlegroup.net/corsair/photos.htm
Here’s a link from a website my buddy from the museum created. The page shows both Corsairs that used to occupy the field. The El Salvador FGD-1 and more pics of 97288 that sadly was lost in an tragic accident. I only wish this bird was still around and based here.
Note: Look at the number designation on the gas tank.
Here’s a link from a website my buddy from the museum created. The page shows both Corsairs that used to occupy the field. The El Salvador FGD-1 and more pics of 97288 that sadly was lost in an tragic accident. I only wish this bird was still around and based here.
Note: Look at the number designation on the gas tank.
Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:27 pm
JDK wrote:Tulio wrote:Better referred to as the 100 Hour War, this conflict left deep resentments between the two nations involved, that still nowadays trigger nasty exchanges in some forums.AAF wrote:The 100-hour war (incorrectly called "soccer war"),...
Dumb question time, why is the name 'Soccer War' a problem? I can appreciate the issues, but I've not seen an explanation. No agenda, just curious.
Many people, yours truly included, believe that the term "Soccer War" is pejorative. It has been coined to portray the causes of the conflict, as centered around soccer games -a sample of the prejudiced view of your typical 'latino' hot blooded reason for going to war - when the reasons for that unfortunate conflict were more complex and involved land, population, enconomic and other reasons.
The series of soccer games and the violence that accompanied them, were not the real reason for this war, that lasted 100 hours.
I have heard, read and discussed with some people who say usually something like: " yeah, and do you remember those two countries in South America, who went to war over some soccer games?"
So, this is why. Every chance I get, the same as others who want to set the record straight, we try to instill in people the interest in going deeper into their research and just not to accept the unfortunate misnomer given to this conflict, term which by the way, IIRC was coined by a Polish reporter.
Saludos,
Tulio
F4u
Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:26 pm
Beautiful flightline, and not so long ago.
Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:55 pm
I hope they do an episode on "Dogfights" on this conflict.
Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:48 pm
Here's a few more pics
FAH-614 with rare checkerboard nose
FAH-609 and 604 flying formation.Note the 3 kills painted below the cockpit of the 609
Air shot of FAH-617 during the mid-70s
FAH-614 with rare checkerboard nose
FAH-609 and 604 flying formation.Note the 3 kills painted below the cockpit of the 609
Air shot of FAH-617 during the mid-70s
Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:49 pm
Tulio wrote:Many people, yours truly included, believe that the term "Soccer War" is pejorative. It has been coined to portray the causes of the conflict, as centered around soccer games -a sample of the prejudiced view of your typical 'latino' hot blooded reason for going to war - when the reasons for that unfortunate conflict were more complex and involved land, population, enconomic and other reasons.
The series of soccer games and the violence that accompanied them, were not the real reason for this war, that lasted 100 hours.
I have heard, read and discussed with some people who say usually something like: " yeah, and do you remember those two countries in South America, who went to war over some soccer games?"
So, this is why. Every chance I get, the same as others who want to set the record straight, we try to instill in people the interest in going deeper into their research and just not to accept the unfortunate misnomer given to this conflict, term which by the way, IIRC was coined by a Polish reporter.
Thanks Tulio, appreciate the answer.
Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:52 pm
In February 1967, the US DoD contracted Cavalier Aircraft Corporation to rehabilitate, remanufacture and modernize P-51D Mustang airframes for military use, under the Military Sales Program. Six of the refurbished aircraft (designated Cavalier Mustang II, and possibly allocated with 67 and 68 fiscal year serials) were delivered to El Salvador (four in September and two in December 1968) and registered as FAS 400, 401, 402, 403, 404, and 405. On October 9, 1968, FAS 402 was destroyed during a take off accident (pilot’s name and rank are unknown).
NARA documents evidence that the Salvadoran government began to prepare the “Plan Capitan General Gerardo Barrios” (a campaign plan for invading Honduras), as early as 1967. Having lost one of their Cavaliers, an unarmed P-51D owned by Salvadoran entrepreneur Archie Baldocchi was “confiscated” and rapidly pressed into FAS service as ‘402’ (a duplicate serial), however, it is uncertain when this actually took place. During my research, I disclosed conflicting reports about this aircraft, one of which suggests that by July 14th it had no armament, which is unlikely to say the least. The official FAS historian, Douglas A. Cornejo, suggests in his book “Historia de la Fuerza Aérea Salvadoreña” (ISBN 99923-0-076-0, page 177) that on July 15th, this aircraft “took off from runway 26 while still under fire from enemy aircraft”. Just to set the record straight, none of the FAH pilots I interviewed reported any enemy aircraft on the air (or taking off) at the time of the attack, unless of course, the aircraft was fitted with “stealth” features (no, this is a joke).
By July 14th, the FAS had five Cavalier F-51Ds and one North American P-51D, although some sources have suggested that a couple of P-51D acquired and flown by “hired” USA pilots may have been in service. This has yet to be confirmed and perhaps Randy could shed some light on the matter.
Yes Randy, my mistake. On July 16, two FAS Mustangs collided during the take off run at the Ilopango airport, one of them P-51D, FAS 402, while the identity of the other remains unknown.
The fact that the hired USA pilots did not acknowledge such collision having taken place at Ilopango airport (accident which the Cornejo book mentions on page 182), is most surprising, however, FAS 403 and 405 were based at Madresal island, one of half a dozen or so “satellite” airfields the FAS had activated before hostilities took place. Curiously, the Cornejo book publishes photos (pages 178 and 181) of such aircraft (serials visible) at that location “during the war”, but again, one never knows how accurate the information may be. The Cornejo book is riddled with contradictory and inaccurate data, i.e., page 171 displays a photo of the remains of Cavalier II, FAS 402 (destroyed October 9, 1968), and incredibly on page 165, a photo shows “FAS 402 seen at Ilopango on December 1968” (the tail number is also visible).
But let’s consider the facts: on July 14th, TF-51D, FAS 400, flown by Major B. Trabanino was interned by Guatemalan authorities until after the war, and on July 17th, FAS 404, flown by Captain V. Varela, was shot down and the pilot killed. This left the FAS with three Cavaliers, unless proven otherwise. There is no documental evidence about the aircraft involved at the Ilopango collision, the extent of damages incurred by either aircraft, or if and when they were pressed back into service. Therefore, we can only speculate whether the aircraft were Cavaliers or not, or perhaps, if one or both were “hired” P-51Ds.
It is worth mentioning that on July 15th, a Honduran F4U-4, FAH 617, flown by Capt. W. López, was interned by Guatemalan authorities.
Honduran intelligence reports produced on August 1969 evidence that at the time, the Salvadoran air force had sufficient pilots qualified to fly the Mustang, most of which had been trained in USA bases. It provides the names (most of them misspelled) of USA pilots flying Mustangs or training FAS pilots, and curiously, the names of some of the places they visited (hotel bars, beaches, etc).
Salvadoran pilots with the rank of Captain had at least 5 to 7 years flying the FG-1D, while those with the rank of Major, about 7 to 9 years; and some of the FAS reserve consisted of veteran pilots who had flown Corsairs (and other aircraft) since 1957.
The first Mustangs were received 10 months before the war, with the added bonus of having a TF-51D for dual instruction.
Although two of their pilots were KIA, all in all, they had at least two dozen pilots qualified in high performance aircraft. So the question has always been: why the need to hire foreign pilots (some of which may have not had previous combat experience)?
JDK wrote:
Dumb question time, why is the name 'Soccer War' a problem? I can appreciate the issues, but I've not seen an explanation. No agenda, just curious.
The simplistic explanation that the war broke out as result of a football (soccer) match, was and is very unfortunate. In all honesty, it was the product of contradictions that unfortunately still exist, between the Salvadoran political system of decadent domination (which in the 1980s produced a civil war) and Honduras’ inability to develop a democratic alternative based on a modest capitalistic development.
To better understand this situation, one should go back in time back to the early 1900s, although the Salvadoran military adventure clearly had territorial ambitions.
This tragic and traumatic event (as any war or tragedy) is commonly known in Central America as the “100-Hour war” or “War of ‘69”, but if we want a comparison on how inappropriate the name “soccer war” is, let’s remember that the USA and it’s allies (coalition members if you prefer) call the first Iraqi war (1992) as “Dessert Storm”, while the Arabs (especially Muslims) do not.
Basically it is a matter of personal interpretation, depending on political and perhaps religious beliefs ... but in the case of the 100-Hour War, it is most likely a matter of misinformation.
A very controversial Latin American political figure has a peculiar taste for using improper adjectives when he refers to a particular political figure or country. So, is it not better to give the proper name to important events, political situations, countries and/or political figures?
JDK wrote:
I always wondered what they called the '100 years war' at the time.
The “Hundred Years’ War” was a conflict between England and France, which lasted from 1337 to 1453 (116 years).
Cheers
[quote][/quote]
NARA documents evidence that the Salvadoran government began to prepare the “Plan Capitan General Gerardo Barrios” (a campaign plan for invading Honduras), as early as 1967. Having lost one of their Cavaliers, an unarmed P-51D owned by Salvadoran entrepreneur Archie Baldocchi was “confiscated” and rapidly pressed into FAS service as ‘402’ (a duplicate serial), however, it is uncertain when this actually took place. During my research, I disclosed conflicting reports about this aircraft, one of which suggests that by July 14th it had no armament, which is unlikely to say the least. The official FAS historian, Douglas A. Cornejo, suggests in his book “Historia de la Fuerza Aérea Salvadoreña” (ISBN 99923-0-076-0, page 177) that on July 15th, this aircraft “took off from runway 26 while still under fire from enemy aircraft”. Just to set the record straight, none of the FAH pilots I interviewed reported any enemy aircraft on the air (or taking off) at the time of the attack, unless of course, the aircraft was fitted with “stealth” features (no, this is a joke).
By July 14th, the FAS had five Cavalier F-51Ds and one North American P-51D, although some sources have suggested that a couple of P-51D acquired and flown by “hired” USA pilots may have been in service. This has yet to be confirmed and perhaps Randy could shed some light on the matter.
Yes Randy, my mistake. On July 16, two FAS Mustangs collided during the take off run at the Ilopango airport, one of them P-51D, FAS 402, while the identity of the other remains unknown.
The fact that the hired USA pilots did not acknowledge such collision having taken place at Ilopango airport (accident which the Cornejo book mentions on page 182), is most surprising, however, FAS 403 and 405 were based at Madresal island, one of half a dozen or so “satellite” airfields the FAS had activated before hostilities took place. Curiously, the Cornejo book publishes photos (pages 178 and 181) of such aircraft (serials visible) at that location “during the war”, but again, one never knows how accurate the information may be. The Cornejo book is riddled with contradictory and inaccurate data, i.e., page 171 displays a photo of the remains of Cavalier II, FAS 402 (destroyed October 9, 1968), and incredibly on page 165, a photo shows “FAS 402 seen at Ilopango on December 1968” (the tail number is also visible).
But let’s consider the facts: on July 14th, TF-51D, FAS 400, flown by Major B. Trabanino was interned by Guatemalan authorities until after the war, and on July 17th, FAS 404, flown by Captain V. Varela, was shot down and the pilot killed. This left the FAS with three Cavaliers, unless proven otherwise. There is no documental evidence about the aircraft involved at the Ilopango collision, the extent of damages incurred by either aircraft, or if and when they were pressed back into service. Therefore, we can only speculate whether the aircraft were Cavaliers or not, or perhaps, if one or both were “hired” P-51Ds.
It is worth mentioning that on July 15th, a Honduran F4U-4, FAH 617, flown by Capt. W. López, was interned by Guatemalan authorities.
Honduran intelligence reports produced on August 1969 evidence that at the time, the Salvadoran air force had sufficient pilots qualified to fly the Mustang, most of which had been trained in USA bases. It provides the names (most of them misspelled) of USA pilots flying Mustangs or training FAS pilots, and curiously, the names of some of the places they visited (hotel bars, beaches, etc).
Salvadoran pilots with the rank of Captain had at least 5 to 7 years flying the FG-1D, while those with the rank of Major, about 7 to 9 years; and some of the FAS reserve consisted of veteran pilots who had flown Corsairs (and other aircraft) since 1957.
The first Mustangs were received 10 months before the war, with the added bonus of having a TF-51D for dual instruction.
Although two of their pilots were KIA, all in all, they had at least two dozen pilots qualified in high performance aircraft. So the question has always been: why the need to hire foreign pilots (some of which may have not had previous combat experience)?
JDK wrote:
Dumb question time, why is the name 'Soccer War' a problem? I can appreciate the issues, but I've not seen an explanation. No agenda, just curious.
The simplistic explanation that the war broke out as result of a football (soccer) match, was and is very unfortunate. In all honesty, it was the product of contradictions that unfortunately still exist, between the Salvadoran political system of decadent domination (which in the 1980s produced a civil war) and Honduras’ inability to develop a democratic alternative based on a modest capitalistic development.
To better understand this situation, one should go back in time back to the early 1900s, although the Salvadoran military adventure clearly had territorial ambitions.
This tragic and traumatic event (as any war or tragedy) is commonly known in Central America as the “100-Hour war” or “War of ‘69”, but if we want a comparison on how inappropriate the name “soccer war” is, let’s remember that the USA and it’s allies (coalition members if you prefer) call the first Iraqi war (1992) as “Dessert Storm”, while the Arabs (especially Muslims) do not.
Basically it is a matter of personal interpretation, depending on political and perhaps religious beliefs ... but in the case of the 100-Hour War, it is most likely a matter of misinformation.
A very controversial Latin American political figure has a peculiar taste for using improper adjectives when he refers to a particular political figure or country. So, is it not better to give the proper name to important events, political situations, countries and/or political figures?
JDK wrote:
I always wondered what they called the '100 years war' at the time.
The “Hundred Years’ War” was a conflict between England and France, which lasted from 1337 to 1453 (116 years).
Cheers
[quote][/quote]
Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:09 pm
Warbird Kid wrote:http://www.thistlegroup.net/corsair/photos.htm
he El Salvador FGD-1 and more pics of 97288 that sadly was lost in an tragic accident. I only wish this bird was still around and based here.
Actually Chris, F4U-4 97288 that crashed in June of 1981 is still around. It's remains are on the west coast in storage pending a rebuild. Center section and right wing, along with the tail section, were still complete, but battered, when recovered from the marsh.
Maybe one day......
Jerry
Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:22 pm
Thanks again.
Um, yes, I was aware of that. It was a (perhaps poor) history joke (Best seen in a history cartoon, "Bye darling, I'm off to the 100 years war, don't wait up.") and rather like the famous 25 BC Roman coins... Think about it.
As to names of wars, it's remarkable how often there isn't consensus about the name; from Falkands / Malvinas, Great War / W.W.I, and the various views of what constituted 'W.W.II'.
A difference between the US and Commonwealth I note is that the US usually chooses 'code' names for operations that sound martial or impressive, while Britain and the Commonwealth, by and large, don't, going for neutral. A different attitude.
Odd names at least have the benefit of being memorable; hard to beat the 'War of Jenkins' ear' for sticking in the memory. Like the soccer issue above, Jenkins' ear was a casus belli, and not the real reason - but then, a good excuse is always good to have, apparently.
Thanks.
AAF wrote:
JDK wrote:
I always wondered what they called the '100 years war' at the time.
The “Hundred Years’ War” was a conflict between England and France, which lasted from 1337 to 1453 (116 years).
Um, yes, I was aware of that. It was a (perhaps poor) history joke (Best seen in a history cartoon, "Bye darling, I'm off to the 100 years war, don't wait up.") and rather like the famous 25 BC Roman coins... Think about it.
As to names of wars, it's remarkable how often there isn't consensus about the name; from Falkands / Malvinas, Great War / W.W.I, and the various views of what constituted 'W.W.II'.
A difference between the US and Commonwealth I note is that the US usually chooses 'code' names for operations that sound martial or impressive, while Britain and the Commonwealth, by and large, don't, going for neutral. A different attitude.
Odd names at least have the benefit of being memorable; hard to beat the 'War of Jenkins' ear' for sticking in the memory. Like the soccer issue above, Jenkins' ear was a casus belli, and not the real reason - but then, a good excuse is always good to have, apparently.
Thanks.
Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:51 pm
Warbirdnerd wrote:Swiss Mustangs wrote:mornin' everyone....
this one:
is a survivor:
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/corsairr ... 92629.html
Martin
It still sports a what I've been told is a bullet hole in one of the main gear doors...
In the mid 1990's I was a volunteer with Bob Pond's "Planes of Fame East" collection in Eden Prairie MN. We had a Corsair that had a hole in a main gear door. The story the docents told was that it was a veteran of the "Soccer War." Same plane, it would appear. #301 in the Warbird Registry pictures (link above) looks real familiar.
I sat in the cockpit a couple of times, saw it fly several times, and cleaned up under it often.
What happened to it after Bob moved the collection west, I don't know.
Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:54 pm
AAF wrote:In February 1967, the US DoD contracted Cavalier Aircraft Corporation to rehabilitate, remanufacture and modernize P-51D Mustang airframes for military use, under the Military Sales Program. Six of the refurbished aircraft (designated Cavalier Mustang II, and possibly allocated with 67 and 68 fiscal year serials) were delivered to El Salvador (four in September and two in December 1968) and registered as FAS 400, 401, 402, 403, 404, and 405. On October 9, 1968, FAS 402 was destroyed during a take off accident
The FAS Cavalier Mustang IIs had no USAF serial numbers, as they were not part of the MAP (e.g., not purchased by the USAF then given to the FAS). They were only ever identified -- including while they were being built by Cavalier -- as their FAS IDs. I have a few photos from inside the Cavalier hanger while the airplanes are in differing states of construction, and each of them has their FAS number stenciled in black paint on the bare metal fuselage.
AAF wrote:Having lost one of their Cavaliers, an unarmed P-51D owned by Salvadoran entrepreneur Archie Baldocchi was “confiscated” and rapidly pressed into FAS service as ‘402’ (a duplicate serial), however, it is uncertain when this actually took place. During my research, I disclosed conflicting reports about this aircraft, one of which suggests that by July 14th it had no armament, which is unlikely to say the least.
Archie was a close "friend" of the FAS and the owner of YS-210P which became the second FAS 402. To say that the airplane was "confiscated" is probably an over-statement, as it implies that it was stolen or taken without the owner's consent. Archie was very closely involved with the operation and maintenance of the FAS Mustangs, and I have to believe that he likely willfully allowed his P-51 to be conscripted back into military service for his country.
AAF wrote:By July 14th, the FAS had five Cavalier F-51Ds and one North American P-51D, although some sources have suggested that a couple of P-51D acquired and flown by “hired” USA pilots may have been in service. This has yet to be confirmed and perhaps Randy could shed some light on the matter.
They had Cavalier TF-51D FAS 400, plus Mustang IIs FAS 401, 403, 404, and 405, plus two stock Mustangs, FAS 402#2 (ex YS-210P) and FAS 406.
The three American mercenaries all flew Cavaliers -- FAS 401, 403, and 405 -- which the FAS Commander had allowed them to take as their personal aircraft during the week of the war. The two other mercenaries, Red Gray and Jerry DeLarm, flew other FAS Mustangs, of which there were at least three (FAS 404, FAS 402#2, and FAS 406). I doubt that Gray and Delarm were given 'exclusive' use of any of those aircraft, as obviously FAS pilots flew numerous combat missions in the Mustangs, too.
The 'illegal' P-51s purchased from the US did not arrive until midway through the week of the war, and were probably not ready for any sort of combat until after the ceasefire had all ready been signed.
AAF wrote:The fact that the hired USA pilots did not acknowledge such collision having taken place at Ilopango airport (accident which the Cornejo book mentions on page 182), is most surprising
The mercenaries didn't even arrive at Ilopango until the night of the 16th, so they would not have been there for the collision itself, having happened that morning. The fact that they never mentioned it simply means that it did not involve FAS 401, 403, or 405, as those were the only three aircraft they had close involvement with, starting the evening of the 16th. They were largely isolated from the rest of the FAS pilots and airplanes for that week, and did not fly with or interact with them until after the war was over. Unfortunately, that isolation then also means that the Americans today can't fill in some of the details about the war because they didn't see some if it.
AAF wrote:however, FAS 403 and 405 were based at Madresal island, one of half a dozen or so “satellite” airfields the FAS had activated before hostilities took place. Curiously, the Cornejo book publishes photos (pages 178 and 181) of such aircraft (serials visible) at that location “during the war”, but again, one never knows how accurate the information may be.
It's an overstatement to say that any of the Cavaliers were "based" at Madresal. One of the mercenaries recalls landing and re-arming there several times, but ultimately they always landed back at Ilopango at the end of the day.
FAS 405 had a landing accident at Madresal on the first day of the war, which resulted in an engine change at Madresal, and it might have stayed there overnight while that maintenance was being performed.
AAF wrote:The Cornejo book is riddled with contradictory and inaccurate data, i.e., page 171 displays a photo of the remains of Cavalier II, FAS 402 (destroyed October 9, 1968), and incredibly on page 165, a photo shows “FAS 402 seen at Ilopango on December 1968” (the tail number is also visible).
Remember that there were two FAS 402s, so that is not at all impossible.
AAF wrote:Although two of their pilots were KIA, all in all, they had at least two dozen pilots qualified in high performance aircraft. So the question has always been: why the need to hire foreign pilots (some of which may have not had previous combat experience)?
Probably because they wanted more good pilots!
Don't forget that Archie Baldocchi had been a warbird owner and pilot for years before the Soccer War. He was good friends and had flown with dozens of very talented Mustang pilots in the US (including the three who were eventually hired by the FAS). Archie had a lot of influence on how the FAS conducted business, and had been charged a month before the outbreak of the war to go purchase Mustangs in the US to augment the FAS fleet.
That is probably where the idea was hatched to hire American mercenary pilots to help out the FAS. Your question about "why" -- when they had several qualified Salvadoran pilots -- would they hire Americans in itself is telling. I interpret that to mean that the FAS leadership was not completely convinced that their own pilots had enough of an advantage over the FAH pilots. My guess is th at they wanted outside help to MAKE SURE that they had the best air force. Smartly, they did not want a fair fight.
Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:01 am
According to reports filed from Guatemala and Venezuela in 1954 by reporter Oscar Yanes and published in Venezuela in Ultimas Noticias , Archie Baldocchi had tried to sell Sea Fires to the CIA sponsored invasion forces that attacked Guatemala, but his offer was not accepted.
Baldocchi also owned and flew the Seversky AT-12 Guardian, that IIRC now survives with Planes of Fame in Chino, and was instrumental in the hiring of the mercenary pilots who flew in El Salvador in 1969.
Although it has been denied many times, there is a rumor that has basically said that Honduras was also seeking to hire foreign pilots, but that the Salvadoreans beat them to the punch, by paying better to those who were available and willing.
Honduras -for the record- has always denied this.
Saludos,
Tulio
Baldocchi also owned and flew the Seversky AT-12 Guardian, that IIRC now survives with Planes of Fame in Chino, and was instrumental in the hiring of the mercenary pilots who flew in El Salvador in 1969.
Although it has been denied many times, there is a rumor that has basically said that Honduras was also seeking to hire foreign pilots, but that the Salvadoreans beat them to the punch, by paying better to those who were available and willing.
Honduras -for the record- has always denied this.
Saludos,
Tulio
Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:09 am
Tulio wrote: there is a rumor that has basically said that Honduras was also seeking to hire foreign pilots, but that the Salvadoreans beat them to the punch, by paying better to those who were available and willing.
Honduras -for the record- has always denied this.
Jerry DeLarm's unpublished bio by Dan H has him quoting that he'd been contacted by Honduras. But, given DeLarm's penchant for outrageousness, who knows how true that claim is.
None of the Americans who flew for the FAS had been contacted by the FAH, but mostly because they were friends of Archie's through warbird flying in the US in the '60s.
Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:52 am
some FAS Cavaliers here on my website:
http://www.swissmustangs.ch/32128.html (scroll down)
and here - also a photo of FAS-402[2]:
http://www.swissmustangs.ch/20214/20322.html (scroll down)
Martin
http://www.swissmustangs.ch/32128.html (scroll down)
and here - also a photo of FAS-402[2]:
http://www.swissmustangs.ch/20214/20322.html (scroll down)
Martin
Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:02 am
I know a guy who used to be part of the Mustang Pilots Club in the late 1960s, flying N511D. He mentioned some years back that he got an offer to fly in El Salvador at the time of the war, but declined that deal and kept on flying in the friendly skies of So. California instead. Anyone with a clue as to Paul Finefrock's status? He was alive a few years back. By the way, on a totally different subject, is Archie Baldocchi still around?
T J
T J