Warbird Information Exchange

Dear all,

Thank you Stratofreighter & Janssonne to bring this disaster in waiting to our attention.

Yes, it's true that the museum is totally under-funded and that whatever permanent staff they have is not up to the job as they are not qualified or even motivated to do the job.

But as photos usually speak better thn words, let's just have a look at a few photos

First 2 shots clearly show how the museum handles aircrafts not on permanent display in the main dispaly hall.

First photo shows the condition of our Miles Messenger when received by the museum : intact, not damaged and definitely structuraly complete



Second photo shows it's current condition : fuselage broken in 3 and many parts lost, damaged or even stolen.



Now, 2 shots to show how well the museum is handling moving of aircrafts. These photos were taken recently at the end of the move of some jets to the new "reserve". Some of them sufferede so much damages that they were later scrapped. Just imagine that it will be the same team that will take of the move of let's say the Mosquito or WWI Spad XIII




And, last but not least, if they survive the journey, they will be "stored" in terrible condition in the museum "reserve". See 2 recent shots below




So, please, please, go to the following site and sign the petition. It will give some weight to the enthusiasts trying to avoid this nightmare from happening.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/BAM2007/?e

Thank you,

Laurent

Laurent,
This is scary! I have a question about the museum inventory. Are they still in posession of the B-25J 44-30925 that flew in the movie "Hannover Street" in 1978? I have a family connection to this aircraft and have just recently learned it's whereabouts.

Doug Ratchford 'canso42'
Brenham, Tx. USA

Wait a damn minute!!!.........

I know just the guys for a job like this.......

Click it
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Maze/3101/sanford.au





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Seriously though. It's a crying shame to see aircraft deteriorating like that in the hands of those who said they would take care of them.

I'd love to take the F-84F off their hands. Do they have 2 of them, or just the same one in 2 different pictures?


Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

I think they have more because there is also one in their museum collection and the pics above show a hull and a cut-off cockpit.
On display:

There is one at Sanicole too, it was used as target practice for a long time, no engine or cockpit but under restoration now.
I've seen one at Keiheuvel as well.
Maybe the Brussels Air Museum's storage is a mess but the collections seems to be very nice, I have never visited the museum though.
http://www.airmuseum.be/aircraftondisplay/

_________________
http://www.warbird-hangar.com links and gallery &
http://www.yakkes.com Yakkes Foundation, Yak-52

Pics & info on B-25 44-30925
A B-25 back in Belgium
a B25 back to Belgium @ Fotopic.Net
Brussels Air Museum Foundation
Have not heard anything about it not being there anymore.

_________________
http://www.warbird-hangar.com links and gallery &
http://www.yakkes.com Yakkes Foundation, Yak-52

I posted the following in this earlier thread:

( http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hp?t=13699 )



Since posting a remarkably poor message has been released by the museum management - clearly due to the pressure applied. More pressure is still needed, as the museum are still not interested in communicating their plans properly, and need to be held to the basic level of their mandate.

YOU can make a difference here, and ALL it costs is a moment of your time. Please make the effort, and let's not get sidetracked into 'what nice airplanes I'd like'. Currently they are on public view for all to see - where they should remain.

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Signed it.

_________________
"So there I was, knee deep in a river I couldn't pronounce..."

Laurent,

Where is this so called "reserve"? Also in Kapellen?

Looks horrifiing. i was thinking of joining the volunteers to restore warbids, but if I see how these planes are treated....

Signed the petition though. The air museum is one of my favorite stops in the capital.

Johan

Thanks for signing gents. More please. Your two minute online effort WILL make a difference.

The reserve store is at Vissenaken, and there are photos of the disgraceful dumped aircraft here:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=71284

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Aeroplane Monthly have run something on this, and we will do so in the next Classic Wings, hopefully the US mags will jump in as well.

Dave

"Yes, it's true that the museum is totally under-funded and that whatever permanent staff they have is not up to the job as they are not qualified or even motivated to do the job."

I really do not understand what we can do to "save" this museum. Is there any chance the collection can be sold off, the museum ended and the planes and artifacts distributed through auction to more worthy collections? I really don't think we need to save a museum that has no track record of stewardship, nor allow those who allowed this decay another operating dollar.

Why not support a museum that works to preserve aircraft, and make an example of those that do not?

Interesting question Joe. Actually the volunteers on the ground have done magnificent work and undertaken amazing restorations, built a replica Wright flyer, etc. They and the Brussels visitor deserve better.

The answer is that the museum 'just' needs a management team who intend to do the job; not a big ask, really - either by being replaced by new people or told to pull their socks up and watched.

That's better than dismantling (if it were legal - they're Belgian property) and it's 90% of a great museum. The gap is appalling management - relatively easy to fix.

It can't hurt to sign the petition, and it is making a difference.

No one here's being asked to take time from supporting their own preferred museum, just to sign - and if we talk about and show this appalling situation in other museums, the feedback, along with the petition, will have an effect by making an example as you've acutely spotted, of those that are inadequate.


PS: What's so hard? I get the feeling that lining up WIXers to lend a hand to a museum at no cost and low stress seems to have a large element of cat herding and self-defeating trivialities, but then I'm a simple soul!

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Some points taken and petition signed...now counterpoint.

" The gap is appalling management - relatively easy to fix. "

What organization with bad management was easy to fix?

A further point, this is a "public" non flying static house of stuffed planes. How hard is that to maintain? There are flying collections privately owned in the UK and Europe that need support. The motive should be to remove aircraft from public "charnel houses" and disburse them to private individuals and entitys. That Piper Cub, an afterthought to the Museum would be cherished by any amount of enthusiasts in the UK. Why not push for that?

From the other thread:

"Seems the Belgian authorities have a long standing problem with history. A couple of years ago they scrapped a number of preserved steam locomotive, one ITIRC was the oldest extant Scottish built loco in the world and subject of a very substantial and well presented appeal to release her to Scotland. Request denied"

"It is another example of Belgian's lack of respect for it's heritage at the governmental level, and before the comment is made that it is another uninformed opinion I lived and worked in Belgium for 4 years so am well aware of the local culture and politics!"


"Of particular interest is the Mig 23 that has also been scrapped since this photo was taken. It arrived intact and complete a few years ago but was not displayed in the main hall as there was already one there. So, it was sored in the "reserve" where museum staff gradually, and without any reason, removed and lost parts and damaged it when they had to move it. So, in the end, the museum took the "logical" decision to scrap it as it was incomplete (thanks to them) and damaged (thanks to them)."

Then its unclear regarding if the plane actually was scrapped. The Loco was apparently.

There was a petition, and the thing seems to upset them due to its political nature. So much for the idea of preservationists running anything or the responsibility to history and learning.

Regarding the petition....

Here below follows the statement from General Hardy confirmed february 21st (reference BAMM 133):

Until there is not a definitive and fully financed renovation project, none of the exhibits will be moved.
The KLM has stated a study (emphasis added by KLM) to move the collection to be prepared when the renovation does start.
The petitioners arguments concerning the 1914-1918 exhibits where heard. The museum is studying the possibility to keep the exhibits in the museum during renovation. The interest of these precious pieces is the priority of both the KLM and the AELR. (AELR = museum volunteer organisation?)
The restauration project will not be handed over to the outgoing government. Because of that the restauration will not start till early 2009 at the earilest (see point 1).
Kolonel Musette, recently arrived at the museum, has been given the assignment to look for a potential 2nd KLM site to exhibit the planes that will not return to Brussels.
Our restauration projects are continuing as usual. The LVG was disabled for restauration, not to be added into some remote storage!
The 12 planes that have to leave are leaving due to a attempt by the board to make the museum historically more interesting. The list was to have been discussed the 31st of may at the board of directors. Due to a time shortage this was not possible. At the petitioners request the list will be put on hold until the petitioners can add their comments. The list is not part of the renovation study, and for these 12 planes the best possible storage fascilities will be arranged.
Our AELR will continue to be involved with the project.

Conclusion
The petition is based on unclear, incomplete and wrong information.

Had the petitioners taken the trouble to verify the information, the petition would not have been started. What I find dissappointing is the complete lack of confidence in both the board of directors, the KLM and the board of directors of the AELR. We where publically attacked and disgraced without any thought to potential consequences.

Sounds like they are concerned with something other than aircraft.

The Brussels Museum should know that the only interest most have in it is of a forensic nature, and weather or not they will fail tommorrow or next week. I believe its important to look at the organization and its goal as well as its visible evidence of pursuing those goals. If a museum cannot keep our faith, regardless of the general public's desire to visit the resturaunt there or whatever, then those in the know should be publicising the neglect and boycotting the organization. Management changes that way. It seems that management is not alone, hovwever, for as a museum grunt, there is evidence that less is being done on the front lines regardless of the motives of the general staff. The 90 percent that is good unfortunatly in my mind is effected by the damage incurred by the unlucky 10 percent. The fact that they would rather destroy than let other save what they could is tantamount to treason when viewed in a historical context. Learning about the locomotive's fate and the vain efforts to save it coupled with other issues of taliban like destruction, perhaps Brussels is best left to rot.

Perhaps the Berlin Museum could add a WW I wing!

Gentlemen,

I find the comments made on this board about the Brussels Air Museum very negative!

I think a few people are judging a place they have actually never been to!

The reason the Brussels Air Museum is planning to refurbish the museum is because the beautiful building it is in needs a renovation.

It is a beautiful building but is leaking and just needs a lot of work done on it, this is in the best interest of the collection housed inside.

Renovating a building this size means some material will have to be moved!

Yes, there store might not be a good place for long term storage, but the reason for refurbishing the main museum is to offer the collection better protection.

The Brussels Air Museum is one of the best aviation museums in Europe.

There is hardly any other country in Europe that has its aviation heritage so well documented in one place (considering the size of the country and its aviation history).

Comments about transferring the collection to other groups are total nonsense.

Why are there no petitions about the scrapping of aircraft by the Imperial War Museum, RAF Museum????

Have any of you ever seen to storage at Duxford?? Right, it does not exist! They have scrapped more stuff than the Brussels Air Museum.

What about the millions of pounds they waste on useless museum Buildings (NOAirNOSpace project?), the millions they spent on restoring aircraft only to put them out again???? Any petitions?????

Why are there no petitions about the Concordes that are rotting away in the UK?

Why are there no petitions about the failure to safeguard many important archives?

National Museum might be poorly funded and very bureaucratic, and not all the people might be interested in what they are doing, but they are the only guarantee that the material is being kept for future generations, private collections do not achieve this!!!

Gentlemen get your facts right!

If you feel so strongly about it, why don't you offer them help??????????

Chris

I have to laud Chris Shaarden's observations. Photos of the "deplorable" artifacts is not any indication of bad management. In this case, I believe them to overtly missleading.

It looks exactly like our boneyard (Ok so we has fewer and decisively less exotic artifacts). but i bet any restorer worth his salt is salivating at the sheer number of VIABLE aircraft. I know several respected museums and collections that have similar salvage yards with comparable aircraft. BTW- that Miles twin tail is not "broken" but merely disassembled. Perhaps because of respnsible space management???~!!!

By all means, there are several institutions that should get and are deserving of support from the aviation public. But on the strength alone of the images posted, the sky is not OBVIOUSLY falling at the Brussels.

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Charles Neely