Warbird Information Exchange

The title says it all. Not a pretty sight. Its a shame that some uninformed politicians can see a 30+ year old fighter's parts as a threat to national security. The only way the canopy in the crate can hurt someone is if they got hit by it (OPPPPSSS that killed GOOSE, sorry)

http://video.ap.org/v/Legacy.aspx?p=tru ... tner=en-ap


Mark H

Actual Demolition, see the whole thing get cut up


http://video.ap.org/v/Legacy.aspx?p=tru ... tner=en-ap

Mark H

What a waste. I am trying to save at least the nose art of an F-14 named "Miss Molly", so far the Naval Museum has been no help at all, just ignoring me.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

I can see it now, Iran spends more on restoring the old F-14s than it would cost to buy new MIG 29s or SU 27s or something a lot more modern. Then they have about waht, maybe 6 flyable F-14s (last heard they had one that still worked (which is pretty amazing in itself)

Then, Iran gets into a conflict with someone or GOD forbid, the Good Old USA. A pair of F-22s attack and in less than 2 minutes Iran has NO flyable F-14s.

For what the real estate costs, they need to leave them parked for 50 years and then put them in museums.

Thank God I know where there is one last F-14 that is disassembled. I can still have one.

Mark H

Well, let's see...30 year old fighters not important to national security?

F-15 -- 30+ years old
F-16 -- 30+ years old
A-10 -- 30+ years old

More?

B-52....yep, you guessed it.
AC-130...same here

How about adversary fighters?

MiG-23, MiG-25, Mirage F-1.

Anyone see a trend?

I'm glad that you're so confident. Unfortunately, I'm not as confident, and I'm one of the potential trigger-pullers.

Randy, I am going to ask you this question. Not to put you on the spot, but because, you have the knowledge to expertly answer. Between the F-14 and F/A-18 (can be any version or generic), which of these fighters (if you were facing them) just made your work load go up tremendously. Another way of saying it would be "which airplane gets more of your respect" (pilots are equal, any ACM scenario). Probably not going to the answer I'm looking for, but I am looking for the Pro Fighter Pilot opinion. Alan

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Just call me Al.

At least we can all agree that these F-14's dont have to be scrapped right away.

Maybe if enough are saved, some law can come into affect to preserve these and other jet warbirds in flying museums? I know. pipe dream.

I remember seeing an air to air picture posted on here of a couple of Raptors and Tomcats flying in formation. It was surreal to see them in the same frame of sky. It was like, "Jet Fighter" versus "Space Fighter".

Anybody know the picture?

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Randy you a pilot or a GIB?

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Check out our new website.
CAF SoCal Wing http://www.cafsocal.com/

Randy is a Eagle Driver!!

The F-14 is a potent hunter in the hands of those Iranian pilots even without the mighty phoenix missile- they are not fools.

My concern is that we will end up with a few F-22/F-18s in a situation where we need hundreds and nothing to fall back on. Does not seem like a probable possibility, but then Pearl Harbor wasn't either.

Tom P.

As with anything, "it depends".

When I was a brand-new F-15E pilot, I had the opportuity to fly against an F-14A in a 1 v 1. I was surprisingly able to kick the snot out of him. Three years later, I had a similar 1 v 1 opportunity against an F-14D -- this time I was the one getting the crap beat out of him. IMHO, the D Model Tomcat is a pretty good fighter -- good engines and good radar -- that still suffers from some of the limitations of the Tomcat airframe (like numbers of places to hang ordnance, where the targeting pod is mounted, overall G limit, etc). It didn't carry the AMRAAM (the A model), so it suffered in the medium range BVR arena significantly (don't let the Phoenix fanboys convince you otherwise...).

The F-18, on the other hand, is a phenomenal dogfighter in the slow speed regime. Get that guy slow and he can point his nose (and thus his weapons) anywhere he pleases, which is pretty unique among currently active fighters. It doesn't have the power of the Tomkitty, as it's considered a "lightweight" fighter. I consider the F-18D and F-18F "Mini Strike Eagles".

Which one would I worry more about? Both of 'em, heh heh. I would NEVER underestimate anyone I was fighting, including an F-14A, because you can get the tar beat outta you by darn near any piece of equipment, depending on what the scenario is and who is flying it....

When I flew AT-38s, you would not believe the number of times I "killed" F-16s and F-15s in air-to-air engagements, even though I had no radar and no medium-range missile capability. Why? The T-38 is small visually and has a small radar cross section. If you can slip in un-noticed and turn the battle into a gunfight at close range, the odds change significantly. Even better, if you can get into a shot position WITHOUT BEING SEEN, you're in REALLY good shape, and that's what happened most times with the AT-38.

As Tom said, I am a pilot/stick actuator/meat servo/front-seater/monkey/chauffeur/etc.

As I said in my last post, I am never prone to just scoffing a potential enemy outright because he is not a technologically advanced. That was a mistake we made with the North Vietnamese, and you can see how that worked out for us.

If anyone wants to beat their chest and think that it would be a cakewalk to just roll into Iran and eliminate their Air Force in the first day, they're entitled to that opinion. I happen to think that's a pretty ignorant opinion, though.

Would the US win militarily against Iran? No doubt in my mind. Would it be a cakewalk? I dunno...why don't you go ask some Desert Storm vets if the Iraqi Air Force was a pushover in 1991. Although the US did not have any confirmed air-air losses (Scott Speicher, perhaps), I'll bet you a case of Heineken that every pilot that shot down an Iraqi had a pulse going through the roof and was playing his top A game....he wasn't just relaxing, smoking a Lucky, and saying "awww, these Iraqis are a bunch of Amateurs." Same goes for Operation Allied Force, where F-15Cs bagged a few more MiGs. Were the Serbians a bunch of Clowns? Yes...but the US pilots flew as if they were going up against the best MiG-29 pilots in the world.

Listen to the recording of "Dirk" flight that is available for download here on the Internet...it's the two F-15Cs that shot down two MiG-29s in Allied Force. All you have to do is listen to the tone of the pilots' voices over the radio to know that they are operating at a very high level and are....well, scared isn't the right word. Perhaps anxious is a better word.

Anyway, if something bad happens and the US finds itself poised to take up arms against Iran in the next couple years, I will probably be there. I won't be thinking to myself, "Aww, these punks are just armed with a couple dilapidated Tomcats and some old Phantoms and MiGs and stuff. What a friggin' cake walk."

No, I'll be "anxious". Probably even scared, because you never know when an enemy -- even one who is not as well trained or equipped -- could whip out a sucker punch that could send me home to my family in a flag-draped casket.

You simply HAVE to respect your enemies until they prove themselves unworthy of that respect. Otherwise, your pride will be your downfall.

Very well said, Randy.

Gary