SPITFIRE/TE308
Sun May 27, 2007 12:22 pm
Just curious as to why this aircraft's rear seat was faired over in the 70's and what it took to return it to it's original configuration. Thanks...
??/
Sun May 27, 2007 9:26 pm
The cockpits were untouched with just rear cockpit covered over.
The pictures I've seen look strange off due to the single seat appearence
with the cockpit farther forward than the standard single seaters.
The pictures I've seen look strange off due to the single seat appearence
with the cockpit farther forward than the standard single seaters.
Mon May 28, 2007 3:40 am
I had considerable discussion with Don Plumb before he undertook this modification. Perhaps a little selfishly I did not recommend it, 
, but pointed out that the aesthetic classic proportions would be lost...and indeed they were. The front cockpit complete is 13.5 inches forward. Don agonised over this in 1972, walking around continuously and placing his thumb over the rear cockpit of every photo he had, to visualise how it would look.
Different now, but then the two seaters were considered the 'ugly ducklings' in the Spitfire desirability stakes. The Grace/Melton modification to slim line the rear cockpit, launched in 1985, changed all that. Subsequent to that all the two seaters, original high line and low line, have become relatively much more desirable.
Because such things as the master controller for the undercarriage are carried in the rear cockpit, and other servicing items had to be accessible, Don Plumbs mod was little more than to remove the rear wind shield, trim the rollover protection frame behind the second pilot flush and panel it over.
PeterA
, but pointed out that the aesthetic classic proportions would be lost...and indeed they were. The front cockpit complete is 13.5 inches forward. Don agonised over this in 1972, walking around continuously and placing his thumb over the rear cockpit of every photo he had, to visualise how it would look.
Different now, but then the two seaters were considered the 'ugly ducklings' in the Spitfire desirability stakes. The Grace/Melton modification to slim line the rear cockpit, launched in 1985, changed all that. Subsequent to that all the two seaters, original high line and low line, have become relatively much more desirable.
Because such things as the master controller for the undercarriage are carried in the rear cockpit, and other servicing items had to be accessible, Don Plumbs mod was little more than to remove the rear wind shield, trim the rollover protection frame behind the second pilot flush and panel it over.
PeterA
Spitfire one or two seat
Tue May 29, 2007 8:48 pm
APG, It did not take that much for Don Plumb to cover over the rear cockpit and make it look like a single seater. They just removed the canopy, windscreen, and support behind it. Then put a piece of sheet metal over the cockpit which fit into the rails of the previous canopy slide. It looked strange since the front cockpit was stiil too far forward. When I bought the plane from Woody Woods 24 years ago,it had the rear cockpit and I had his shop finish it pretty much as it had been. Somehow the rollover support behind the rear seat was missing, we later borrowed an original and QG made a duplicate for my plane. There is no doubt that the factory 2 cockpit version is not as handsome as the single, nothing else is either, but iti is great to be able to share with a co pilot, especially on trips. The 2 seater formerly in the Champlin Museum in Mesa, then in EAA Oshkosh was also covered over. You can see the side door for the rear cockpit still.The Grace version is better looking, but I'd guess there are some compromises in it as the rear seat must be lowered.
Wed May 30, 2007 5:52 am
Thanks for the info. I always thought the two seat version's were interesting...
Re: SPITFIRE/TE308
Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:29 am
PeterA wrote:I had considerable discussion with Don Plumb before he undertook this modification. Perhaps a little selfishly I did not recommend it,
Different now, but then the two seaters were considered the 'ugly ducklings' in the Spitfire desirability stakes. The Grace/Melton modification to slim line the rear cockpit, launched in 1985, changed all that. Subsequent to that all the two seaters, original high line and low line, have become relatively much more desirable.
Because such things as the master controller for the undercarriage are carried in the rear cockpit, and other servicing items had to be accessible, Don Plumbs mod was little more than to remove the rear wind shield, trim the rollover protection frame behind the second pilot flush and panel it over.
PeterA
awesome images you have shared...!
Re: SPITFIRE/TE308
Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:07 pm
Seeing as this thread has been resurrected, I wondered how TE308 is progressing and when will she be airborne again?
Re: SPITFIRE/TE308
Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:25 am
Last I heard, earlier this spring, just a few panels and some landing gear work left to be done......dunno if it'll appear this year, but I would certainly think next summer for sure!
Re: SPITFIRE/TE308
Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:27 am
Hello Gents,
If this Spit used to be registered as G-AVAV then here's a couple of pics,
I think this might have been Connie Edwards standing on the wing at RAF Henlow or RAF Duxford during the B o B filming in 1968. (I have no idea who the photo credit should go to).
Same Spit in happier attitude refuelling at Elstree (I think). Again - no idea who took the photo.
Photo credit as per pic.
G-AVAV, along with a Mk V (I think it was Air Commodore Wheeler's), and a dozen or so Buchons, Jeff Hawke's B25 camera ship, a Mosquito (which was used for some of the B o B filming) and 2 x CASA Heinkels plus 2 x Proctors dummied up to look like Ju 87's were sent to RAF Bovingdon, in 1969 after the B o B filming was completed. I was based at Bovingdon at the time and we shared our hangar with all of them except the B25 and the two Heinkels. I remember spending some time sitting in the front cockpit of G-AVAV having a dream or two (as well as all of the others - the Heinkels had a peculiar smell I recall).
These last two pics were taken by me one day at Bovingdon after the Buchons were modified to resemble P.51s (dummy belly scoops) before they were flown to Spain for the filming of 'Patton'. I was lucky enough to be in the right place for the pics of these 'Wolves in Wolves' clothing'. I used a cheap Kodak Instamatic which was the only camera that would fit in my flying overalls. I used to keep it in there for just these opportunities.
Cheers
Barry
If this Spit used to be registered as G-AVAV then here's a couple of pics,
I think this might have been Connie Edwards standing on the wing at RAF Henlow or RAF Duxford during the B o B filming in 1968. (I have no idea who the photo credit should go to).
Same Spit in happier attitude refuelling at Elstree (I think). Again - no idea who took the photo.
Photo credit as per pic.
G-AVAV, along with a Mk V (I think it was Air Commodore Wheeler's), and a dozen or so Buchons, Jeff Hawke's B25 camera ship, a Mosquito (which was used for some of the B o B filming) and 2 x CASA Heinkels plus 2 x Proctors dummied up to look like Ju 87's were sent to RAF Bovingdon, in 1969 after the B o B filming was completed. I was based at Bovingdon at the time and we shared our hangar with all of them except the B25 and the two Heinkels. I remember spending some time sitting in the front cockpit of G-AVAV having a dream or two (as well as all of the others - the Heinkels had a peculiar smell I recall).
These last two pics were taken by me one day at Bovingdon after the Buchons were modified to resemble P.51s (dummy belly scoops) before they were flown to Spain for the filming of 'Patton'. I was lucky enough to be in the right place for the pics of these 'Wolves in Wolves' clothing'. I used a cheap Kodak Instamatic which was the only camera that would fit in my flying overalls. I used to keep it in there for just these opportunities.
Cheers
Barry
Re: SPITFIRE/TE308
Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:00 am
Hey Mark,
Lets hope your forecast of a return to flight is accurate. Thanks for the info.
Barry,
Thanks for sharing those photos.
Andy Scott
Lets hope your forecast of a return to flight is accurate. Thanks for the info.
Barry,
Thanks for sharing those photos.
Andy Scott
Re: SPITFIRE/TE308
Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:26 am
Thanks for the update guys. It will be nice to see her airworthy again.
Re: SPITFIRE/TE308
Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:21 am
seagull61785 wrote:Hello Gents,
If this Spit used to be registered as G-AVAV then here's a couple of pics,
I think this might have been Connie Edwards standing on the wing at RAF Henlow or RAF Duxford during the B o B filming in 1968. (I have no idea who the photo credit should go to).
Same Spit in happier attitude refuelling at Elstree (I think). Again - no idea who took the photo.
Photo credit as per pic.
G-AVAV, along with a Mk V (I think it was Air Commodore Wheeler's), and a dozen or so Buchons, Jeff Hawke's B25 camera ship, a Mosquito (which was used for some of the B o B filming) and 2 x CASA Heinkels plus 2 x Proctors dummied up to look like Ju 87's were sent to RAF Bovingdon, in 1969 after the B o B filming was completed. I was based at Bovingdon at the time and we shared our hangar with all of them except the B25 and the two Heinkels. I remember spending some time sitting in the front cockpit of G-AVAV having a dream or two (as well as all of the others - the Heinkels had a peculiar smell I recall).
These last two pics were taken by me one day at Bovingdon after the Buchons were modified to resemble P.51s (dummy belly scoops) before they were flown to Spain for the filming of 'Patton'. I was lucky enough to be in the right place for the pics of these 'Wolves in Wolves' clothing'. I used a cheap Kodak Instamatic which was the only camera that would fit in my flying overalls. I used to keep it in there for just these opportunities.
Cheers
Barry
Wrong Spitfire. Those shots are of MJ772.
Credits should be to 'Spitire Productions' for the top one taken at Little Staughton on 9 July 1968.
Peter Arnold took the middle one at Elstree on 3 May 1969.
TE308 was G-AWGB
PeterA
Re: SPITFIRE/TE308
Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:19 pm
Thats great, I wish all the best for Bill. Hope to meet him some day. 
Re: SPITFIRE/TE308
Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:15 pm
Peter,
Thank you for clearing that up.
Do you know what happened to G-AVAV?
Cheers
Barry
Thank you for clearing that up.
Do you know what happened to G-AVAV?
Cheers
Barry
Re: SPITFIRE/TE308
Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:31 pm
MJ772 went through a few owners, one of them being Doug Champlin.
She is currently based with Meiers Motors in Germany. Back in good health after a gear up landing and still in two seat configuration. She was modified "a la" Plumb single seat when owned by Doug Champlin.
Andy Scott
Wanabe Spitfire historian. I'm feelin' all that after watching two Spitfires fly escort with two Hurricanes off the wing of the CWH Lanc and KA114. 
Peter, do you get updates from Bill G?
She is currently based with Meiers Motors in Germany. Back in good health after a gear up landing and still in two seat configuration. She was modified "a la" Plumb single seat when owned by Doug Champlin.
Andy Scott
Wanabe Spitfire historian
. I'm feelin' all that after watching two Spitfires fly escort with two Hurricanes off the wing of the CWH Lanc and KA114. Peter, do you get updates from Bill G?