Tue May 08, 2007 5:01 pm
Why don't someone get it?
Because it is in a national park. The government here tends to be a little uptight about those types of things.
Re: Warbird Wreck Question
Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:15 am
Hi there I signed up to this board a) Because I was researching this wreck online and b) I have been to the site and thought I might add some information.
Parks Canada apparently will not allow recovery of this plane as the area is heavily populated by bear, cougar and eagles. I have been to the site and its a hard slog through the bush, the trail is almost non-existant and overgrowth is yearly. Those photos in the first post of this thread are great, but they are old. The wreck is barely visable now from overgrowth. It has been raided by sovenier hunters. The shell is there and you can get inside it after you are in you have to watch you dont hang yourself in the wiring that is all over the place, but as someone above has mentioned, it would be one helll of a job to restore as just about everything has a bend in it or dents. Both engines had been ripped out and parts removed, whats left of them sit on either side of the fuselage. props are gone now. some glass remains but the blisters are but shells and framework. Inside the cockpit still has most of the guages etc alot of the electrical is still intact. When this thing hit the trees it REALLY floundered and dug itself in.
Anyways for any one interested the actual co-ordinates are on this website http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/pby/11007.html
which states...
Pilot F/O Ronnie J. Scholes
Co-pilot F/O LC Laker
Navigator F/O Lace Knechtel
Crew P/O CC Sartouris
Crew WO2 LH Malcomston
Crew WO2 JB Campbell
Crew WO2 CH Henningsen
Crew F/Sgt. RW Hacker
Crew Sgt. RF Bell
Crew Sgt. WA Hooge
Crew AW1 RJ Pike
Crew Mr. DF Marlett
Force Landed February 8, 1945
Aircraft History
Built by Vickers in Canada. Constructors Number CV-285. Model PBV-1A. RCAF serial number 11007. BOC October 30, 1943. Officially stricken on April 14, 1945.
Mission History
Took off from Coal Harbour around noon, with 12 aboard and carrying four 250 lbs depth charges. Shortly after becoming airborne the port engine stopped and the aircraft crash landed 3 miles off the end of Tofino Airfield. The occupants escaped.
Wreckage
Located three miles west of Tofino Airfield. At 49.04.40N 125.49.11W
Mark Adam reports:
"The machine is remarkably intact, the airframe anyway. It has been picked clean of instruments, seats and anything else that could be carried off. but there it lies. It is has Royal Canadian Air Force markings #11007"
In 1972, the Knechtel and 11 other RCAF veterans visited the crash site.
Knechtel recalled:
"Regarding the crash of Canso 11007, the official location is 49 degrees 07 minutes north and 125 degrees 46 minutes west. There were twelve people aboard. The pilot was named Ronnie Scholes. I was flying as pilot-navigator. We left Coal Harbour about noon on the 10 February 1945 and flew to Tofino. The weather was quite blustery by the time we landed at Tofino. Several of us then drove to Ucluelet to pick up some engine parts (I think it was) and then spent the early evening hours in the Tofino mess. We finally cleared for take-off at 2300 hours and had just cleared the end of the runway when the port engine quit cold. At this time we were carrying 12 people (one WD), 4 – 250 pound depth charges, normal emergency gear and about 750 gallons of gas."
Contribute Information
Do you have photos or additional information to add?
Last Updated
March 18, 2010
All in all it is a great wreck to wander around but bring some good shoes and a thick jacket and some bear spray. All the best!
Parks Canada apparently will not allow recovery of this plane as the area is heavily populated by bear, cougar and eagles. I have been to the site and its a hard slog through the bush, the trail is almost non-existant and overgrowth is yearly. Those photos in the first post of this thread are great, but they are old. The wreck is barely visable now from overgrowth. It has been raided by sovenier hunters. The shell is there and you can get inside it after you are in you have to watch you dont hang yourself in the wiring that is all over the place, but as someone above has mentioned, it would be one helll of a job to restore as just about everything has a bend in it or dents. Both engines had been ripped out and parts removed, whats left of them sit on either side of the fuselage. props are gone now. some glass remains but the blisters are but shells and framework. Inside the cockpit still has most of the guages etc alot of the electrical is still intact. When this thing hit the trees it REALLY floundered and dug itself in.
Anyways for any one interested the actual co-ordinates are on this website http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/pby/11007.html
which states...
Pilot F/O Ronnie J. Scholes
Co-pilot F/O LC Laker
Navigator F/O Lace Knechtel
Crew P/O CC Sartouris
Crew WO2 LH Malcomston
Crew WO2 JB Campbell
Crew WO2 CH Henningsen
Crew F/Sgt. RW Hacker
Crew Sgt. RF Bell
Crew Sgt. WA Hooge
Crew AW1 RJ Pike
Crew Mr. DF Marlett
Force Landed February 8, 1945
Aircraft History
Built by Vickers in Canada. Constructors Number CV-285. Model PBV-1A. RCAF serial number 11007. BOC October 30, 1943. Officially stricken on April 14, 1945.
Mission History
Took off from Coal Harbour around noon, with 12 aboard and carrying four 250 lbs depth charges. Shortly after becoming airborne the port engine stopped and the aircraft crash landed 3 miles off the end of Tofino Airfield. The occupants escaped.
Wreckage
Located three miles west of Tofino Airfield. At 49.04.40N 125.49.11W
Mark Adam reports:
"The machine is remarkably intact, the airframe anyway. It has been picked clean of instruments, seats and anything else that could be carried off. but there it lies. It is has Royal Canadian Air Force markings #11007"
In 1972, the Knechtel and 11 other RCAF veterans visited the crash site.
Knechtel recalled:
"Regarding the crash of Canso 11007, the official location is 49 degrees 07 minutes north and 125 degrees 46 minutes west. There were twelve people aboard. The pilot was named Ronnie Scholes. I was flying as pilot-navigator. We left Coal Harbour about noon on the 10 February 1945 and flew to Tofino. The weather was quite blustery by the time we landed at Tofino. Several of us then drove to Ucluelet to pick up some engine parts (I think it was) and then spent the early evening hours in the Tofino mess. We finally cleared for take-off at 2300 hours and had just cleared the end of the runway when the port engine quit cold. At this time we were carrying 12 people (one WD), 4 – 250 pound depth charges, normal emergency gear and about 750 gallons of gas."
Contribute Information
Do you have photos or additional information to add?
Last Updated
March 18, 2010
All in all it is a great wreck to wander around but bring some good shoes and a thick jacket and some bear spray. All the best!
Re:
Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:02 am
Warbird Kid wrote:Im usually for salvaging any wreck out there. Aside from any deaths involved in a crash, therefore making it a grave site, I'd be all for gettin it out of there!
Though I'm a 19 year old college student in Connecticut. What could I do?
Chris
I know how you feel Chris When I was 20 (1974) I had the opportunity to purchase the 4th Production model of the North American B-25, N2825B "Miss Hap" the former VIP Transport of Hap Arnold, for 17,000.oo
This was a delima for me, because,
1. I didn't have the equipment to get her out of Florida.
2. Didn't know enough people to help me get her our of Florida.
3. At 20, Where TF would I have put her once I got her out of Florida.
While I was living in Germany, I had the opportunity to pick up one or more B-25s out of Alaska, for 4 grand each, and......well I just about blew a frickin head gasket
Re: Warbird Wreck Question
Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:36 pm
.
While you can rebuild anything with enough money, jigs and new metal, or simply transfer the data plate and history to the hulk of another airframe or collection of parts, in this instance I think its best to leave this Cat where she is.
There are still plenty of more complete Cats needing a long term home, so any museum deciding to acquire one for display would be hard pressed to justify chasing this wreck over other complete examples, unless it was intended to simply display it in a crash diorama?
Its certainly beyond economic repair to airworthy condition given the availability of flying aircraft at prices probably equal to the initial recovery costs of this bird, ignoring restoration costs?
Even static restoration would be hard pressed to avoid the obvious solution of replacing the shattered wings with other units, the same would be true of many parts - even much of the fuselage, in the end how much of the outcome would be based on the wreck?
Its likely the remaining fuselage is distorted from the impact, and so any donor fuselage proving the missing forward section and cockpit would be a better starter kit than the wreck remains, and the distortion and twist may make it difficult to repair or join to replacement parts (wing & forward fuselage).
There was that "Sad Sack" house boat fuselage recently sold in Canada and likely to become available again after transfer of its blisters and turret to a flying aircraft, would it be sensible to scrap it just for its forward section to graft onto this shattered wreck?
It would be simply more viable for any museum to find a surplus wing set and rebuild that fuselage as a static display.
Even for an individual wanting to get into a restoration cheaply, the apparant "free to a good home" attraction of this wreck in the bush is not really the case, its not a simple matter of picking it up and taking it home.
I have been exploring the recovery of another PBY rear fuselage wreck in Canada that we have received recovery permission for, and the airlift cost for a helicopter, to lift it onto the back of a semitrailer parked nearby on a made road ready to haul it out, was @$10k for an hours work. (there is the cost of getting the chopper to and from site as well, on top of any lift work)
This was to acquire the missing rear fuselage section for a RAAF Cat being restored for static display here in Australia, there are not a lot a derelict fuselage sections available these days and its a shame to cut another complete fuselage just for its tail, but equally our restoration was missing a serious chunk of airframe.
However that recovery was effectively uneconomic, and luckily we have recently acquired the target section elsewhere at a fraction of the cost, without the need to cut an intact fuselage.
This airframe would need a team to disassemble it, multiple airlifts, tree clearing, multiple semitrailer trips, etc, the hours and hours of helicopter time alone would send you broke.
Other than a memorial / crash diorama outcome by one of the National Canadian collections, this aircraft would seem best left where it is, the issue of allowing parts recovery is a different matter? it seems a pity to leave an intact turret rotting away in the bush?
Unfortunately PBY's are still not valued very highly, look at the fate of "Sea Bitch".
regards
Mark Pilkington
While you can rebuild anything with enough money, jigs and new metal, or simply transfer the data plate and history to the hulk of another airframe or collection of parts, in this instance I think its best to leave this Cat where she is.
There are still plenty of more complete Cats needing a long term home, so any museum deciding to acquire one for display would be hard pressed to justify chasing this wreck over other complete examples, unless it was intended to simply display it in a crash diorama?
Its certainly beyond economic repair to airworthy condition given the availability of flying aircraft at prices probably equal to the initial recovery costs of this bird, ignoring restoration costs?
Even static restoration would be hard pressed to avoid the obvious solution of replacing the shattered wings with other units, the same would be true of many parts - even much of the fuselage, in the end how much of the outcome would be based on the wreck?
Its likely the remaining fuselage is distorted from the impact, and so any donor fuselage proving the missing forward section and cockpit would be a better starter kit than the wreck remains, and the distortion and twist may make it difficult to repair or join to replacement parts (wing & forward fuselage).
There was that "Sad Sack" house boat fuselage recently sold in Canada and likely to become available again after transfer of its blisters and turret to a flying aircraft, would it be sensible to scrap it just for its forward section to graft onto this shattered wreck?
It would be simply more viable for any museum to find a surplus wing set and rebuild that fuselage as a static display.
Even for an individual wanting to get into a restoration cheaply, the apparant "free to a good home" attraction of this wreck in the bush is not really the case, its not a simple matter of picking it up and taking it home.
I have been exploring the recovery of another PBY rear fuselage wreck in Canada that we have received recovery permission for, and the airlift cost for a helicopter, to lift it onto the back of a semitrailer parked nearby on a made road ready to haul it out, was @$10k for an hours work. (there is the cost of getting the chopper to and from site as well, on top of any lift work)
This was to acquire the missing rear fuselage section for a RAAF Cat being restored for static display here in Australia, there are not a lot a derelict fuselage sections available these days and its a shame to cut another complete fuselage just for its tail, but equally our restoration was missing a serious chunk of airframe.
However that recovery was effectively uneconomic, and luckily we have recently acquired the target section elsewhere at a fraction of the cost, without the need to cut an intact fuselage.
This airframe would need a team to disassemble it, multiple airlifts, tree clearing, multiple semitrailer trips, etc, the hours and hours of helicopter time alone would send you broke.
Other than a memorial / crash diorama outcome by one of the National Canadian collections, this aircraft would seem best left where it is, the issue of allowing parts recovery is a different matter? it seems a pity to leave an intact turret rotting away in the bush?
Unfortunately PBY's are still not valued very highly, look at the fate of "Sea Bitch".
regards
Mark Pilkington
Re: Warbird Wreck Question
Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:29 pm
Slightly off topic, but what about the PBY that's in Saudi Arabia? I've sent letters to the consulate in New York asking about it, but haven't received a reply. Are they that uptight as well, or do they have more important "matters" to focus on?
Re: Warbird Wreck Question
Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:09 pm
.
Actually I am not sure about the current political situation but we approached them about 4 years ago about recovering its tail as a pattern for our missing section, and got a very favourable response, subject to some external conditions that seemed easily met.
However the airframe is virtually powder and then a Canadian wreck we then pursued was a far better option of getting something that could be grafted on, not something which might collapse into dust on its way to us, and could only ever provide a pattern, Luckily we were able to source a perfect tail section recently in the US.
Its on a salt water sand bar, and its wing has now collapsed into the fuselage, its well beyond saving, in fact of worse value for anything than the shattered Canadian wreck being discussed in this thread.
regards
Mark Pilkington
Actually I am not sure about the current political situation but we approached them about 4 years ago about recovering its tail as a pattern for our missing section, and got a very favourable response, subject to some external conditions that seemed easily met.
However the airframe is virtually powder and then a Canadian wreck we then pursued was a far better option of getting something that could be grafted on, not something which might collapse into dust on its way to us, and could only ever provide a pattern, Luckily we were able to source a perfect tail section recently in the US.
Its on a salt water sand bar, and its wing has now collapsed into the fuselage, its well beyond saving, in fact of worse value for anything than the shattered Canadian wreck being discussed in this thread.
regards
Mark Pilkington