Warbird Information Exchange

The Mar. 07/2007 edition of The Cariboo Advisor newspaper has article about a man from Surrey that claims he has a gear leg fom a P-38 that he claims was recovered from Williams Lake. He is wanting to recover it. The mayor of William's Lake has already claimed it for the city.
Many locals doubt that the AC is actually there. Persons from the era have been interviewed and doubt hat it is actually there. The article also mentions a P-38 that is reported to have crashed at Prince George on land in 1956 and killed a teenager riding along. The "Prince Geroge Citizen" has an article about it in the archives.
I am having a problem posting a pdf. How about someone and not everybody send and email to todd@caribooadvisor.com and he will email you the pdf (not everyone)and then post it here or send me an email and i will forward it to you. The Cariboo Advisor does not have a website.

http://pg.ipms.tripod.com/p38/index.html

CF-HSC

Prince George P-38 Hypthosis is.. that CF-HSC is ex NX-21765 ex Panama HP-???

Source Lockheed twins by Air Britain that does not have a USAF Serial number, but does have Construction Number 8300

NX-21765 raced in the 1946 and 1947 Bendix Air Races, a photo of it is
here: http://airex.org/pix/pixsell12.html

By 1947 it was owned by Earl Reinert and he entered it in the 1947 race
with ex Waaf pilot Jane Page Hlavacek (1917-2006) as #63. In 1946 it
was raced by Harold Johnson. It is listed as a F-5G

c/n 8300

I wonder if it is c/n 422-8300 which makes it 44-53045 (if my maths is
right)

From http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1944_4.html

44-53008/53327 Lockheed P-38L-5-LO Lightning c/n 422-8263/8582

44-53045 (F-5G-6-LO) I.e this was converted to F-5G status

Paul

Kevin Grantham's book "P-Screamers" lists her as P-38L-5-LO converted to F-5G-6-LO C/N 422-8300 AAF S/N 44-53045

Kenn

_________________
May all your bent wings be F2G Corsairs!

What authority does a Mayor have to claim it for the city?
If a plane crashes onto my land do I get instant ownership of it?

Regards,

Funny how British Columbia seems to have so many phantom aircraft in lakes.

Before anyone loads up their vehicle with scuba gear, I can assure all that there are no P-38's in any lake in BC. Nor are there any B-24's, B-17's, P-39's, P-40's, P-51's, Lancasters or Hurricanes (All of which have been said to be in lakes in BC over the past 20 years). I have spent a good deal of my life researching BC aircraft and have a pretty solid idea of what is not out there.

There always can be surprises, but even under the "missing" catagory none of these aircraft types are listed. Some lucky person may find something in an old dump, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

The military were darn good at recording all incidents - and people are really good at starting rumours.

Plus....

British Columbia has very solid legislation protecting all historic aircraft wrecks on land and under the water. Sadly, there is very little to protect - but the Province has strongly said "hands off" to recovery without an archaeological recovery permit.

Undoubtably the most comprehensive book on the subject of civil P-38s is "P-Screamers," by A. Kevin Grantham (1994).
As Kenn says, the individual history of this aircraft is in P-Screamners and includes the following on the identity:

P-38L-5-LO 44-53045 c/n 422-8300. Converted to F-5G-6-LO. NX21765 January 1946. CF-HSC 1954. Crashed June 25, 1956 near Prince George, BC.

The history also enumerates its various racing achievements.

Paul

I disagree. It depends on how and which data base or records you can track down to read. I spent about $6k on phone calls in the 90's and i have plenty of info on aircraft. It is all about who and what you know.
There will be more aircraft to be found.
I do doubt the Williams Lake story.

Hey, I like this thread. I always like hearing about the potential of aircraft airframes still not found in BC. I do hate hearing about the deaths associated with them though.

About 10 months ago I ended up researching the history of a Hawker Hurricane (RCAF5392) that had crashed on Vancouver Island. I was not sure if the airplane had crashed into a lake and was salvagable, or if it had hit the ground. I requested the accident report from the National archives and when it came in I learned more about the incident. I could write all about it because it was rather interesting, but it ended up being a Hurricane that inadvertantly entered cloud, the pilot bailed out, and the airplane spun. The airplane was not located by the RCAF, but I learned during my research that the airframe had been discovered by a loggers, was chopped up and promptly buried. The accident report also mentions that the pilot survived, but sustained minor injuries after being caught in a tree.

I was hoping that the airplane might have slipped into the near by lake with the possibility of the airframe being recovered to possibly be used on the CMF's Hurricane centre-section restoration.

Does anyone have confirmation that the airplane is not in the lake, like noted on warbirdregistry.org?

Cheers,

David

Here's another thing. I saw this a year or two ago and don't really care about the silly story that goes along with it "Gold" and whatnot, but I am curious on the airplane's history and crash site. It looks like it's up near Pitt Lake. Any comments on this would be invited.

http://www.darkglobe.net/team/training/b25.html

-David

Hi;

The Hurricane is not in the nearby lake, but in the mountains high above.

The pilot bailed out after experiancing an engine failure (not cloud related!). The wreckage was discovered by hunters in the 1960's. With the exception of some theft of parts in the 1990's, the wreckage is relitively intact - it has not been chopped up or buried. However, it is just that, wreckage and perhaps the basis for a static project.

The wreckage is actually privately owned, having been purchased from the Canadian government in 1988.

When you all are done, there a OR ANG P-51D at the bottom of Vancouver (WA) Lake

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Don't touch my junk!!

The laws regarding wrecks in BC were written more to help shipwrecks than aircraft. There was a need to protect ship wrecks here on the west coast from being stripped by trophy hunters so new rules were developed that were a catch all for all wrecks in BC. It’s a paper tiger anyway. To date I don’t know if its done any good as aircraft and parts are still being illegally removed. Anyway, you have worry more about the locals than the laws, they’re pretty protective of their heritage wrecks.

Re: the Hurricane, was this Sgt. Gainforth's who bailed out in the Nitnat Lake area and was lost in the woods for several days eventually walking out? He walked out following the Caycuse River eventually reaching a fisherman's shack on Nitinat Lake where he made contact with a boat. I’ve heard it eventually turned up but was destroyed and buried by logging crews. Davem says its still there?! Interesting, I know a couple folks who have been searching for it for years with no success. Davem, do you have photos or proof the aircraft is still there? Would be nice to finally put this one to rest. Also there are already overlapping “claims” of salvage rights to the aircraft from what I understand.

Anyway if I had a dollar for every wreck in BC, I’d have enough to by a flying Mustang. BTW, some of you have seen this, but wrecks are still being found in BC, heres one from a couple years ago.

Brian...

Hey Brian,

Is that picture the Canso that's at the bottom of Mill Bay (is that right)? When I was at the Victoria Air Museum they mentioned that a PBY was found quite accidentally when there was an ocean-bottom survey in the Victoria area.

As for the Hurricane RCAF5392, as the RCAF accident report states, the the pilot went down near Nitnat Lake, and yes, the story of his walking out of the woods to a fishing hut are mentioned in the report. I have heard many different stories of the airplane, but the most prevelant was that the plane was discovered, but later destroyed and burried.

I too, like Brian am very interested in seeing a picture of the Hurricane RCAF5392 where it rests today. I'd also love to hike and go see it and I certainly would have no plans on stealing anything from it. In fact, I would asolutely love to help recover it if the time ever comes. Wreck sites are just so facinating and I would love to photo document what is left of the airframe.

As for the cause of the accident it's strange that DaveM mentions an engine failure. Reading the RCAF accident report, it did not mention anything about an engine failure, but rather, accidental entry into cloud (actually cloud and smoke from a nearby forest fire) and at the same time the pilot was trying to climb rapidly to catch up with his lead... thus ending up entering cloud/smoke at a very high climb angle. The SOP for entering cloud was to bail out, and that was done and the airplane ended up spinning into the ground. In the report it mentioned that the aircraft was not found (of course this was back in 1943). The report also recommended that such fighter interceptor practices shall be conducted in better VFR conditions and above certain minimum altitudes. Maybe my memory has failed me, but that's what I remember reading about the RCAF 5392 accident.

In any case, DaveM, you totally purked up my ears when you mentioned the airframe was still in decent condition. If you have any more information I'd love to hear it, as I'm sure many people on this board would too.

And Finally, Brian, you're very right, there are so many airplane wrecks in BC that have still yet to be discovered. Like the crash of a Lockheed Lodestar on the North Shore Mountains of Vancouver... That airplane wasn't discovered for something like 40 years.

Cheers,

David

It's not how much money you've spent on phone calls that matters, it's about how successful you've been at recovering aircraft that counts. Sure, there are more wrecks to recover, but the proof of the talk is the airframe back at base.

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Raven