Warbird Information Exchange

No Problem Randy..

Chris

We'll probably have another crack(or 2 or 3) at the Tucson Boneyard
next week to look for the A-10 deuce. They re-ran Wingnuts #1 Friday
and Sat. at least 6 times..probably the debates have cut into their
"numbers". So, possibly next week we'll have several chances to
peruse the "old mans" stuff in #2....well...at least what was there 6mos,
or a year ago.
So, if havad iv comes up dry...we'll be able to torture ourselves with
what is gone...or what we may next pursue!!!

Gotta fly, Malta Story...againnnnnn....1953...Alec Guinness...Old planes and stuff...next.

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

The show's on again. This time they built a table out of a C-119 crew door, and a cooler/boombox out of a Constellation beverage cart. And worst of all, a desk with a glass top made out of a B-25 elevator with a horrid apple green powder coating.

_________________
Dan Johnson

One of the guys from the show, Tim (the baldheaded one with an attitude) evidently died Monday.

Yeah that apple green was horrid, but I liked the cooler/boom box idea from the beverage cart!

_________________
Victory By Valor (Motto of the 20th Fighter Group)

Oh Yeah:

There are 2 each of C-119, and C-82 at Nat'l A/C. Was Nat'l on TV? Bald guy w/ attitude? Sounds like my work..

Chris

Sorry, the bald guy died, but I won't miss him. Trust Hollywood though,
they'll find some way to "tart-up" the show for the ratings numbers!
Reality shows...sheesh...anything but reality is in evidence. Wrestling
inspired showmanship meets a shop atmosphere!

So, I'll continue to read Aeroplane etc. and wait for the salvage yard
trips with peeled eyeballs. I have an hour before the second airing of
show #3(the one you guys saw earlier). They seem to be running the
"new show" every Tues, and then repeat the previous weeks show
on the following Fri/Sat evenings several times.

So, this Fri/Sat nite we have numerous times to peruse for the A-10.

I really have a problem with ORIGINAL VINTAGE warbird parts being
turned into art. Some "banged-up bits" that have passed their pattern-value, or a "Connie-prop whatever" is turned to art because of
failures in inspection due to stress cracks etc....I could live with.

Then there is the crime factor or divorce rate to consider,
(home from an evening out)....
"Honey!!! They've stolen our wonderful Connie-prop dinner table",
he cries in angst!! She responds, "Oh dear, I'm soooo sorry"...she
coos sympathetically, barely containing her glee. (The SOB spent
20K on that shiny hunk-o-junk, plopped it in MY dining room, and the kids need this, that etc......)

Headlines..
"Man shot dead while absconding with "boom-box-cart"! , Friends of
round-engine-Rob stated that he was listless the previous week of the
fatal incident, often mummbling it's not right...it's the last piece I need...."

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

Ha, ha, ha, ha..

And what more evidence is there than to see them turning a B-25 part into an ugly green desk? Such a waste!!!!

I've not watched the show any more and I'm sorry to hear of the death of one of workers. But I'm convinced that something needs to be said to the Discovery Channel producers. I don't have a problem with an art business using discarded aircraft parts for art (and there are plenty of more modern scrap parts lying around) but I, too, have a BIG PROBLEM with them using vintage parts that could be used to save a piece of history. It's just stupid.

I think Discovery could do a better job of educating the viewing public by focusing a show on an aircraft recovery or restoration--or just visit some of the shops that do the work. It's interesting and important work and I'm sure the sponsorship dollars from Discovery would be appreciated. (This is something I've thought of suggesting to them for some time. Or maybe one of the restoration shops out there could offer a proposal to Discovery. )

The Discovery Channel has discussion forums for most of their popular shows, but they do not appear to have one for WingNuts. I found a comment form that is forwarded to their viewer relations department. (The form selections allow you to relate it to the WingNuts show.)
Here is the link:
http://extweb.discovery.com/viewerrelations

I'm going to write a draft of my own comments to contribute. Maybe some of you who would like to offer your remarks also.

Remember, guys...we still live in a free-market economy. The guys salvaging parts for scrap are doing so for money. The Aero Trader guys restore and maintain warbirds for the $$$. The guys buying those parts and doing with them what they please (making objects d'art) are doing so to make a living. They have just as much a right to earn their living that way as any of us doing what we do.

We also live in a free society. Personal property isn't protected "for the good of many" -- it is by definition personal property. They are not destroying anything that is so historically significant that it is irreplaceable, otherwise that probably *would* be cause for concern. If they were converting the Spirit of St Louis into a lamp, or the Enola Gay into a bar, I could see your point. But a Connie hub? A DC-6 or B-25 elevator? Hardly parts that need to be placed on the national registry.

If anyone has a beef with warbird parts being used for anything other than warbird restorations, feel free to pony up the $$$ to buy the part and save it. Otherwise, the guys at National Aircraft don't run a museum or a charity...don't expect them to do it. Even more importantly, look at where the B-25 elevator came from -- Aero Trader, a warbird maintainer!! His quote on the program (I'm paraphrasing) was that he was glad Moto Art was buying the piece and "preserving" it, otherwise it would be scrapped. Again, this is a warbird maintainer/owner/rebuilder saying this.

So, is it tragic that a warbird part was made into a table? Yeah, probably. Illegal? No. Cause to get your panties in a bundle and complain to Nat'l Aircraft, Aero Trader, Moto Art, Discovery Channel, or whomever? That's up to you...but have some perspective.

I missed that part of the program. Was there some defect in the elevator that wasn't obvious? That puts a whole different light on the B-25 elevator desk, which leave only the question, why that green color(perhps better for the "art of it)?

I do agree, though, that they are free to make "art" out of warbird parts, just as those of us here are free to dislike it.

_________________
Dan Johnson

I agree with Randy on this one too... I know that Aero Trader is able to make just about anything for B-25s no matter what and the loss of a non-airworthy elevator may have not been too much of a loss. At least the purchaser of the desk will know that it is a B-25 part and will preserve it as such and admire it. Much of the stuff that National or any of the other yards will have run through their gates will exit one of two ways... intact or in a pile. I'd rather see them intact, though not on a warbird per se, but as a piece of admirable art, than to see them exit in a pile in the back of a truck headed for a smelter.

The biggest thing you have to realize here though is that none of these objects are being built in massively huge numbers... ever see their site? See how much these things are going for? It would be stupid for them to make thousands of a certain type because the value would go down so much. These are close to custom pieces and one to seven aircraft parts are being used for them... not entire inventories.

I was a fan of the company long before the series... in fact I was on their mailing list from about 2 years ago it seems when it all started and I found the site. I got a call from Dave about 8 months ago who was personally calling all the folks on the list and telling them to "buy what they want now because the TV show is going to make stuff go like mad". Being a right-brainer anyhow, I always liked what they did and dreamed of filling my house with propeller "Martini Tables" even though I didn't even like martinis!

I gotta admit that I am not a fan of the trumping up of a legitimate business operation just for reality TV. I guess the same is true for American Chopper. I am sure that 90% of the "drama" that goes on is recommended by the producers and the other 10% is somewhat real. Either way, it's frustating that we need to have bad tempers and sex appeal to get ratings these days... even for the self-titled former documentary and "smart person" channel Discovery. What the heck happened to all the animal shows anyhow?

From a marketing mind... I admire the plan of the show to build sales. Look at what happened to the modest Orange County Choppers! An Upstate NY cycle shop turns to the competition for Jesse James in a few seasons. Who would have thought?

Ryan Keough

Donate the unuseable corroded stuff to the artists.

Thanks for the well-reasoned thoughts, Randy. And I agree with you mostly.

I was not suggesting running the guys over at Moto Art out of business. And forming picket lines outside their office or the Discovery Channel headquarters would be silly. But offering a friendly suggestion that some of the parts could be more valuable to a rebuild of an historic aircraft or for future projects could be helpful and maybe even educational for them. Painful as it is to watch, yes they are free to do whatever they want after they buy the parts.

If the parts are defective or otherwise useless (as the case may be with the B-25 elevator), then I have no problem with it being put to good use instead of being turned into cookware. I cannot agree with you on the historical significance of some parts compared to others--just because it isn't a "popular" aircraft part doesn't mean that it's not important or worth preserving when possible for the future. The average person wouldn't know the difference between a desk made from WWII bomber part or a Cessna, nor would they care. But I'm thankful for those who do know and who do care.

Thanks again for the comments, and cheers.

Col.,
Probably a different "Rob"-ber...obviously lacking your skills in
"artifact aquisition negotiations"!!! ....

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF