Warbirds over Kalamazoo?
Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:04 pm
Could someone explain to me what Warbirds over Kalamazoo was? I now the last time it was held was in 2001.
Last edited by warbirdguy on Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:18 pm
The air zoo used to fly most of their collection, and I believe this was their airshow. They no longer fly anything in the collection, although I heard that they are going to give rides in the tri-motor.
Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:45 pm
Warbirds over Kalamazoo was a small airshow put on by the Airzoo, in which aircraft from the Airzoo as well as other warbirds were flown. It started, IIRC, when the High on Kalamazoo airshow was discontinued. The last year of the Warbirds airshow, the Airzoo was no longer flying it's own aircraft, which severely limited the number of aircraft for the show.
The Airzoo's Trimotor should be flying again in 2008.
HTH,
John, docent at the Airzoo
The Airzoo's Trimotor should be flying again in 2008.
HTH,
John, docent at the Airzoo
It started as
Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:49 pm
It started as "High on Kalamazoo" in 1983 or so. I think I went to the 1983 and 1984 shows. THat is where they did the first formation of Gruman Cats and an F14 which evolved in the Heritage Flights.
I guess it evolved into the Warbirds over Kalamazoo Show later.
On one show they had a F-14 that was leaving and there was a low (under 1000') ceiling. He did some aerobatics under the ceiling; then a knifeedge pass where he swept the wings back. The next pass was 300kts or so and he hit the burners, pulled up vertical through the overcast and in about 15 seconds was gone, couldn't even hear him.
I have a shot of Bill Ross in the Fork Tailed Devil making a fast pass over the field when he was arriving, almost knifeedge and maybe 1 wingspan high (or less).
A few months later they had a great warbird show in South Bend IN (I was in school at ND at the time) Dick Dieter must have put it together and they had an incredible collection of warbirds. Of course I didn't have the money at the time to buy film since eating was a pretty big priority back then. THose were the days when a lot fo planes sat on the ramp leaking something. One Mustang had a lot of "speedy dry" under it. THere was oil, coolant just dripping out of it. (I mean there are "weeps", "seeps", etc, this was at the regular drip stage here). The nicest planes at the time were from Kalamazoo and Ray Stutsman. It seems like most of the rest had not gone through that restoration yet. Of course in those days they were not building parts like they are now.
The good old days.
Mark H
I guess it evolved into the Warbirds over Kalamazoo Show later.
On one show they had a F-14 that was leaving and there was a low (under 1000') ceiling. He did some aerobatics under the ceiling; then a knifeedge pass where he swept the wings back. The next pass was 300kts or so and he hit the burners, pulled up vertical through the overcast and in about 15 seconds was gone, couldn't even hear him.
I have a shot of Bill Ross in the Fork Tailed Devil making a fast pass over the field when he was arriving, almost knifeedge and maybe 1 wingspan high (or less).
A few months later they had a great warbird show in South Bend IN (I was in school at ND at the time) Dick Dieter must have put it together and they had an incredible collection of warbirds. Of course I didn't have the money at the time to buy film since eating was a pretty big priority back then. THose were the days when a lot fo planes sat on the ramp leaking something. One Mustang had a lot of "speedy dry" under it. THere was oil, coolant just dripping out of it. (I mean there are "weeps", "seeps", etc, this was at the regular drip stage here). The nicest planes at the time were from Kalamazoo and Ray Stutsman. It seems like most of the rest had not gone through that restoration yet. Of course in those days they were not building parts like they are now.
The good old days.
Mark H
Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:00 pm
Hi Guys,
I was wondering what the deal was with the AirZoo basically grounding everything in the collection. I do know, that basically in honor of Sue Parrish the P-40 was parked. But with the rest of the collection being as signifigant as it is, I have been curious as to the reasoning behind grounding the "fleet".
Additionally, several years back I do recall an accident where a drunk driver (?) slammed through a fence and took out a large chunk of one of thier hangars and in the process he mangled the P-39. Did the -39 ever get repaired after the accident ??
I have seen most, if not all of the collection at one time or another, over the years at Oshkosh, including the magnificent "Cat Flight" that they had flown for the Warbird show at Oshkosh.
But, not to get too far off topic, was their reasoning to ground the fleet more in responding to fuel costs, operating costs, maintenace costs, insurance, or perhaps the lack of Type Rated pilots within their organization ?
Anyone have any info on this ?? Or thoughts perhaps ?
Respectfully,
Paul
I was wondering what the deal was with the AirZoo basically grounding everything in the collection. I do know, that basically in honor of Sue Parrish the P-40 was parked. But with the rest of the collection being as signifigant as it is, I have been curious as to the reasoning behind grounding the "fleet".
Additionally, several years back I do recall an accident where a drunk driver (?) slammed through a fence and took out a large chunk of one of thier hangars and in the process he mangled the P-39. Did the -39 ever get repaired after the accident ??
I have seen most, if not all of the collection at one time or another, over the years at Oshkosh, including the magnificent "Cat Flight" that they had flown for the Warbird show at Oshkosh.
But, not to get too far off topic, was their reasoning to ground the fleet more in responding to fuel costs, operating costs, maintenace costs, insurance, or perhaps the lack of Type Rated pilots within their organization ?
Anyone have any info on this ?? Or thoughts perhaps ?
Respectfully,
Paul
Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:17 pm
At the time of grounding they cited "insurance costs". Exactly what that means or why they regard such costs as prohibitive where other collections don't, I don't know. I thought that they might reassess things after a few years and start flying again, but it didn't happen.
Those birds are much missed as they used to be a reliable highlight of many airshows in the midwest and Ontario. I have always hoped that one day they will be sold off to someone who wants to fly them again.
The P-39, I believe, was static for several years before the general grounding and probably before it got mangled. Likely it has not been truly airworthy since shortly after it left the CAF.
August
Those birds are much missed as they used to be a reliable highlight of many airshows in the midwest and Ontario. I have always hoped that one day they will be sold off to someone who wants to fly them again.
The P-39, I believe, was static for several years before the general grounding and probably before it got mangled. Likely it has not been truly airworthy since shortly after it left the CAF.
August
Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:21 pm
The P40 is hanging from the celing now and the P39 was repaired after the car went into the hanger, the collection was grounded because high insurance cost to fly them, atleast that is what they told everyone , I have pictures from the last big show in 2000, I will post some later tonite
Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:31 pm
'Ossifer...I could schwear I jusht hit an airmaplane...'
Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:39 pm
Bob Ellis (Air Zoo Director) told me back in '01 that the current insurance was running out, and in order to renew it the company planned to triple the premiums, but cut the covarage considerably. Blame the epidemic of "product liablility" lawsuits that have nearly destroyed general aviation.
Also, I heard a less official story that without the substantial infusion of private cash from the Parishes and others who flew the warbirds, there was no way the museum could support flight operations. Those people aren't getting any younger, and that cash source was drying up.
I'm hopeful they'll get the Tri-Motor up and running before too long..I mss the old girl (flown in her at least a dozen times over the years.) She's been down since they found cracking and corrosion in the spars back in '02. I understand "Mr. Tri-Motor" Maurice Hovious has fabricated new spars and center-section structure, and it's mainly a matter of putting her back together at this point.
Sue Parish quit flying the P-40 back in '92..she just wasn't physically up to it anymore, and I heard the plane needed some costly maintenance to keep it going. As for the P-39, the Air Zoo acquired it around 1984, and only flew it a few times..it's been grounded since '85 or '86. I've heard that pilots were nervous about flying it due to the difficulty of getting out in an emergency, and it also had a bad vibration in the drive-train that would cost a bunch of money to fix.
SN
Also, I heard a less official story that without the substantial infusion of private cash from the Parishes and others who flew the warbirds, there was no way the museum could support flight operations. Those people aren't getting any younger, and that cash source was drying up.
I'm hopeful they'll get the Tri-Motor up and running before too long..I mss the old girl (flown in her at least a dozen times over the years.) She's been down since they found cracking and corrosion in the spars back in '02. I understand "Mr. Tri-Motor" Maurice Hovious has fabricated new spars and center-section structure, and it's mainly a matter of putting her back together at this point.
Sue Parish quit flying the P-40 back in '92..she just wasn't physically up to it anymore, and I heard the plane needed some costly maintenance to keep it going. As for the P-39, the Air Zoo acquired it around 1984, and only flew it a few times..it's been grounded since '85 or '86. I've heard that pilots were nervous about flying it due to the difficulty of getting out in an emergency, and it also had a bad vibration in the drive-train that would cost a bunch of money to fix.
SN
Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:59 pm
Hm!
Interesting about the P-39 having rarely been flown while at K'zoo. Didn't realize until now that I was witness to something rather special when visiting the Air Zoo in July 1982; the P-39 was flown that day (and as I recall it was an abbreviated flight)...course a P-39 flying is never a common sight (I wouldn't see another for over twenty years), but now I'm even more pleased I got to see K'zoo's in the air.
S.
Interesting about the P-39 having rarely been flown while at K'zoo. Didn't realize until now that I was witness to something rather special when visiting the Air Zoo in July 1982; the P-39 was flown that day (and as I recall it was an abbreviated flight)...course a P-39 flying is never a common sight (I wouldn't see another for over twenty years), but now I'm even more pleased I got to see K'zoo's in the air.
S.
Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:52 pm
Warbirds Over Kalamazoo started in 1997 after they stopped having the airshow. It was an exciting event where the Air Zoo warbirds would fly along with a host of visiting warbirds. One year, Kermit Weeks brought the B-26 on its way to Oshkosh. There was also always alot of warbird aerobatics, among the best I've ever seen including John Ellis' Tigercat aerobatics and Dale Snodgrass with the Corsair. The Air Zoo planes were the feature of the show until they were grounded at the end of the 2000 season. They had they show again in 2001 but attendance was very low and quite frankly, it sucked. They haven't made any kind of effort to have an annual warbird show since then, which is disappointing.
As to the whole issue of the planes being grounded, what really bothers me about the Air Zoo is that they "can't afford insurance" to fly the aircraft yet they can spend $20 million on a new amusement park that a couple of planes sit in. On my last visit I was told they didn't have the money to work on the Trimotor, so I don't think that will be in the air again anytime soon. We can hope that they will one day fly the aircraft again, but I think the Air Zoo is now more concerned with operating a tourist attraction than flying its aircraft.
As to the whole issue of the planes being grounded, what really bothers me about the Air Zoo is that they "can't afford insurance" to fly the aircraft yet they can spend $20 million on a new amusement park that a couple of planes sit in. On my last visit I was told they didn't have the money to work on the Trimotor, so I don't think that will be in the air again anytime soon. We can hope that they will one day fly the aircraft again, but I think the Air Zoo is now more concerned with operating a tourist attraction than flying its aircraft.
Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:24 pm
We did a stop there last summer with the bombers and were given some insight into the future of the Museum. For those that have not been there a new multimillion dollar building was built and houses part of the collection near but not on the airport proper. The majority of the naval fighters are still in the "old" facility hangar on the airport. They are planning on building more space at the new location to house the naval fighters and move completely off the airport. The aircraft will never fly again as part of the plan. The trimotor was scattered pretty well across the restoration hangar last summer and I can't imagine too much progress being made in 7 months. Its a crime to see this beautiful collection collect dust but its thier choice.
JimH
JimH
Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:14 pm
Here are some pictures from 2000
Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:20 pm
I thought that the new museum was awsome. I am one of those guys that doesn't mind them on static. Like I said before, both types of museums are needed.
Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:25 pm
Yeah but when a flyable museum becomes non flyable it is just more warbirds being put down.
Now the world has lost another flyable Tigercat, Wildcat, Corsair and so forth
Now the world has lost another flyable Tigercat, Wildcat, Corsair and so forth