Warbird Information Exchange

I went to the NMUSAF today and was trolling around the WW2 section when I noticed that Strawberry Bitch doesn't have ball turret. I sad to myself "huh"?? I've seen this B-24D thousands of times and have been inside her and have never noticed that she didn't have a vetral Sperry turret.

So I decided to get a closer look underneath and "Nada". No turret, just a sheet metal blank in the shape of a ball turret.

So my question is: What gives? Anyone know if her turret was removed during the war or after or what?



Shay
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Semper Fortis

Shay,

She had a ball back in '59 when they flew her out of Davis Monthan-go to the thread "Here's to Lil: a burst of B24s."

Scott

At some time in the recent past August Horvath posted a photo taken by Richard Kamm showing this ship in flight
and it clearly shows the turret in place... question is, when was that photo taken? August?

I too have been inside of this B-24 and I honestly do not recall that area of the ship. Matter of fact, it was so long ago
I don't recall much about it except wondering, "I'm having some trouble getting around inside of this thing in just
T-shirt and shorts... how'n'he-ll'd they do it back then with all that stuff on"?


Fade to Black...

You guys got me, but I never saw here with a ball, and alot of the B-24D's in that unit had them removed. But I am not sure.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

I looked into this a few years back. I used to think the "Bitch" was an early 'D' without the turret, but a closer look revealed the patch underneath (I've been inside the plane as well..there's a piece of plywood covering the hole, but the mounting lugs for the turret armature are still in place.)

I was told by a museum docent that the ball turret was removed after the "Bitch" arrived at the musem and installed on their "old" B-17 (which was later replaced by Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby, and is now on display at the Air Mobility Command Museum at Dover AFB.) The old B-17 was converted to a drone controller aircraft, and had been stripped of turrets and other armament before being given to the AFM in the late '50s.

Complete info on the B-17 is here: http://www.amcmuseum.org/Collections/Aircraft/B17FlyingFortress.htm


Cheers!

Steve

I guess I never paid much attention to that as I never noticed in my several trips to the NMUSAF. This might be a stupid question but: Is the hole skinned over? The ball turret retracts into the fuselage on the B-24 so possibly it is retracted and not really visible from the display angle?

There's a crude sheet metal patch underneath..I've got a pic buried somewhere in the mountains of photos I've shot at the museum over the years. Someday I need to get a scanner that will do negs so I can get everything archived and organized digitally...

Like Peter-four-oh said, I had a heck of a time getting through the bombay to get to the cockpit in street clothes. There were some old vets in the plane at the time, and I asked how they managed in bulky flying gear, flak jackets, parachutes, oxygen, etc. One just chuckled and said "well, we were all a lot younger and skinnier then...."

Oh...here's a pic posted by K5083 a couple of months ago of the "Bitch" departing Davis-Monthan after refurbishment for her ferry flight to Dayton in 1959, clearly showing the ball turret. Hopefully someday they'll install another one.


SN

Yeah, there isn't much room walking through the bomb bay. I can just imagine how much fun it would have been if one of the bombs got hung up in one of the shackles and you had to walk across that skinny thing in free up the bomb. This is off topic but it reminds me of an instructor that told me that they used to have a malfunction in some of the AT-11s that would release the bombs onto the bomb bay doors one in a while during bombardier training. In the AT-11 the bomb bay is essentially inside the aircraft so the gunner and co-pilot would have to lift up the bomb while the doors would open and they would heave it out the bottom of the aircraft. Sounds like fun lol!

I talked with a B-24 bombardier once..he told me about having to occasionally crawl into the bombay and release a hung-up bomb by jimmying the solenoid with a screwdriver. Those guys had balls that STILL clank!

SN

One can only imagine what it must've been like to try and bail out of stricken B-24.

Regarding "Strawberry Bitch", it's good to see that she has maintained her nose art and logo over the years and not changed because of the PC trend.

John

Thanks guys

Really strange that they decided to part her out for her turret. Now that I remember it's not just the Ball turret missing they took out the whole rig. It would have stuck out like a sore thumb when I was inside her to see the Ball turret fixture and no ball turret. Too bad they didn't keep the turret with SB if that is the turret she carried into combat.

There is another ball turret on static sitting next to Shoo Shoo all opened up for people to see what it was like inside it. I would not have been a ball gunner.

I've been inside both ShooShoo and Strawberry Bitch and I gotta tell ya I thought there was plenty of room in the B-24 compared to the B-17. SB felt like my living room after being in Shoo Shoo.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

good post.......... if a ball turret was originally present on the bitch it's rather disappointing that the museum would not stick to the ethics of historical accuracy. a museum is about accuracy hands down.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

I guess at the time they only had one ball turret, and it's something sort of universally identified with the B-17. While most people don't notice it on the B-24, it sticks out like a sore thumb if it's not on the Fort.

SN

You know I am kind of mad abou tthis. I am sending an e-mail to on eof th emuseum heads to see what he says about it.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

thanks mustangdriver!!! i'm curious as to their reply. please post it after it arrives. is the smithsonian air & space museum remiss in their restorations as well?? i understand that a plane being restored can't be 100% complete down to the rivets, but cosmetically it should be to insure knowledge gaps are covered, to prevent historical misinterputations from the viewer. we on this site recognize these errors, but to john q. public who is just going to a museum for something to do it spreads lack of historical foresight.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!