Warbird Information Exchange

It is very simple not to blame the guy, unless he crossed a taxyway, or a runway, he did nothing wrong, he was taking pictures. You seem to be the type that goes along with what ever the TSA says. I for one am not, I was out at Buckeye airport several months ago, it is a airport that is over 40 miles from Phx, there is nothing around there except cows and a egg farm. The TSA made them install security fencing around the airport, it was not needed, it was a waste of money, and a added pain if you want to fly into there.

When I got interested in planes, I would ride my bicycle 5 miles to the airport and ride around the ramp to look at the planes, if you try that now, you will be arrested.
Where did our freedom go ? and before you say it is because times change, I say BS, it is because some pencil pusher has to justify thier job and if you are happy, they are not trying hard enough.

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Matt Gunsch, A&P, IA, Warbird maint and restorations
Jack, You have Debauched my sloth !!!!!!
We tried voting with the Ballot box, When do we start voting from the Ammo box, and am I allowed only one vote ?
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C'mon Matt, no. Not really.

Not my reading of it.

(And which 'you' are you referring to?) If you think there's anyone pro- TSA here, feel free to point them out. I'm sure we can make them look silly. WIX luv TSA?

As to 'where did our freedoms go' that's a bigger question. To me, here, the issue is if one could establish if the photographer was on a 'airline security' area brought in by (arguably overzealous) anti-terrorist rulings, or trespassing on an airfield safety area.

If we want to push back the un-necessary and paranoid 'anti-terrorist' rulings, restrictions and behaviour, that needs to be done to win the battles - and that means no political hyperbole (Nazis etc.) no 'wandering innocent' or to prove a point, not by power or threats of violence but by due process. Yes, you have to beat them at their own game. Making em look silly is probably the only fun option that'd be successful.

The issues are the same around the world at the moment. At least much of the TSA's behaviour is evidently over-reactive and not likely to be sustainable if attacked through the right channels - there are more insidious battles, like these frustrating fences.

Just by 2d.

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Well, here's a few quotes from the conversation that follows the original story...one from a witness, and one from the photog himself.



To which the photog responded...



THis is interesting as well.



Another informed opinion here...



And lastly, this guy seems to have been part of the process somewhere along the line based on the information he shares...



I wanted to avoid making a textwall out of this, but it seems that these quotes have become important to the conversation here.



Matt, I think you've completely misinterpreted the point I've been trying to make this whole time.

I make every single bit of my living, and support my family, as a photographer. Like Danno,I am not a fulltime aviation photographer. This means that, if I go into a new situation, I need to find out what rules govern my conduct. I'm the team photographer for the Columbus Crew of Major League Soccer, for example. There are places I can shoot from that media photographers cannot, and those rules are based on the bylaws on FIFA, the international soccer governing body. If RandomRookieSoccerShooter tries to shoot from between the benches, security will escort him away from there.

Similarly, if I want to shoot from the opposite side of the runway because the light's better over there, I'm not going to go walking over there without confirming with airport authorities that I can do that. I've probably had a 75% success rate when I've asked to do such a thing (including the time the tower gave me a radio and told me to call in as 'White Taurus 1' before I moved onto the runway). The reasons to do this are twofold...first is that I get the shots I need this time, and second is that next time, they remember me as someone who followed the rules and didn't cause a potential operatonal problem.

That is exactly what Danno the Photog did NOT do. He wandered into areas where he shouldn't have been without clearing it with the proper authorities. Therefore, the intial fault is his.

Lastly, whether we like it or not, times have changed. Just recently the FBI broke up a plot in New York that included bombing synagogues and shooting down a military aircraft with a shoulder-fired missile. I can remember flying without having to go through security, but times and events forced this to change.

I am NOT defending TSA, nor am I saying that everything done in the the name of security is justified. I maintain, however, that the fault here starts with the photographer.

Longest post I've ever made on here.

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"Anyway, the throat feels a bit rough...the legs have gone...but I'm still able to chant, so let's get going."

Joe Strummer, 1999

And a good post at that. With the additional information it's quite clear there was a pretty serious mistake made there. No matter how much I dislike the current version of airport "security" - perhaps some of it really is necessary - especially in some of the bigger cities. I can tell you that if I saw some guy cross the runway in front of me, or an active taxiway without permission I'd be a bit bothered!

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Seconded. And you failed to achieve the WIX hits by pointless politics, mental ability challenge and an international incident. Get outa here.


That's just 'cos you drive a weeny-likkle airplane. Fly C-17, you'd not even feel the bump.

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

The fencing you mention has been installed at more than a few smaller airports in the last 2-3yrs. A side effect is that at many of these airports you now have no way out of the fence except through the FBO and surprise! suddenly ramp fees/ access / facility fees have popped up at many of these same FBO's. There's little more frustrating than dropping passengers off at 6am in some little airport in IA only to be stopped on the way back to your plane because "you didn't pay the fee yet". The usual justification is "your people used our facility". Makes one's blood boil when you park on the city owned ramp and need to get to a car in the city owned parking lot but there's a toll way in between. Thanks again TSA.

Okay...lemme pull this out. I can save it, you Republicratted Demopublican. I couldn't think my way outta a paper bag, so there! Oh, yeah...and aren't you from Cuba or South Africa or New Zealand or somewhere?



thunkthunkthunk.

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"Anyway, the throat feels a bit rough...the legs have gone...but I'm still able to chant, so let's get going."

Joe Strummer, 1999

A recent case where this has happened in Australia to an outback airfield (and when we say outback, we mean a long way from anywhere like a terrorist target!).

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

I think the message is clear nobody like what the TSA is doing. So rather than talk about them more here, give your representatives and senators a call.

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"No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!" R.R.

Welcome to the USSA! One Nanny State Under the Messiah, Indivisible with Tyranny, Higher Taxes, Socialism, Radical Environmentalism and a Loss of Income for all. Boy I'm proud to be a part of the USSA, what can I do to raise taxes, oh boy oh boy!

I've been saying this for awhile now... You guys are on a bad, bad curve ! Very soon, American GA airports will be totally innaccessible, just like they are in Europe ! The TSA and other agencies are hard at it.

Goodbye Young Eagles, Friendly fly-ins and open houses unless you do something, and soon.

Here's what is waiting for you: http://www.passion-aviation.qc.ca/cascais.htm

Getting arrested for taking pictures... fortunately, stupidity is not lethal !

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Michel C
Thousands of a/c pics at Passion-Aviation

Yes, Michel, we know, we know! Unfortunately, the general public doesn't care at all about general aviation, so nothing will change for a while.

It think it will have to get real, real ugly before enough people put pressure on Congress to put pressure on the TSA to back off.

Does anyone actually read threads they post in any more?

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"Anyway, the throat feels a bit rough...the legs have gone...but I'm still able to chant, so let's get going."

Joe Strummer, 1999

No!

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Support Your Local Warbirds! KBO!
The only reasons the airplanes matter is what the veterans did with them... and why.

It is a HOT BUTTON issue and as such, people's emotions tend to overcome logic, reason, FACTS and such! Threads that reach people's personal frustrations cause reactions initially to the news that triggered it and then they ramble on, often take on a life of their own, ranting on and on and on and....what were we taking about?

PLEASE READ THIS:

The guy was invited to take pictures here on the CFM ramp by the crew of the B24. This was early morning before the museum opened. He was told to wait on the ramp until the B24 got back. On his own, he followed the B24 down the taxiway on foot. He then crossed the parallel Taxiway. Then crossed the ACTIVE runway, to get a better shot. The police were called by the Tower and held him while a background check was run. When everything came back good, they released him. He has appoligized and admitted he was wrong. What more do you need?

So he makes a big joke about it and I have to explain it since he came through our ramp, unknown to me. I get a call at home wanting to know why I let this guy through the gate. The TSA had nothing to do with it. And WHO uses the term "Tarmac" to describe a ramp except the media?

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Blue Skies,
Doug

www.cavanaughflightmuseum.com