CAF Zero Question

[RickH]

Bill we took the F-4 up there and it would be called a sympathetic restoration. It is 99.9 % original with only the addition of two VHF-20s along with two civilian control heads and a small audio panel in the side console.

The best they would give it was Judges Choice.

[Bill Greenwood]

Doug. Gary , Steve, Rick, "organic" is a the latest rage now in vegetables, fruit, milk, etc. You guys just don't recognize the value of the concept when used on airplanes.

[Steve T]

What a great thread...everybody knows in general terms some of the howlers to come out of the Carman shop, but here on WIX we've got people who can give out with all the terrifying-yet-hilarious details!

I think Bill's on to something about the creativity award. Like the way the populace in Cuba keep all those '50s American cars going any which way but standard...how about a "Reserve Grand Champion--Whimsical" category at OSH? Maybe a cigar company could sponsor it...

Looks like NMNA have had quite a lot done to the ex-Quantico/Diemert A6M-2. I last saw it parked (yeah, on its gear) in the old Marine Corps Aviation Museum at Brown Field; at that time it was in a late-war dark green camo, and the engine, cowl, prop et al were fairly plainly B-25 Mitchell components. The aircraft was quoted as being flyable at that time (early 80s). For some reason, though at P'Cola the airframe now has a more or less normally-proportioned nose instead of the huge R2600 beezer, it now looks more like the lashup/mockup it apparently always was. Maybe the pale paintwork shows these things up.

I have a soft spot for the other A6M (the one in "The Defender"), as it is still the only Zero I have ever seen flying. That was at one of the old NWM shows, during the brief period they were run at Batavia NY--which BTW were the three best Warbird shows I've seen. The A6M was part of a Tora demo, in formation with Harvard-based "Zeke" and "Kate" replicas, an interesting exercise in aircraft recognition. The announcer kept referring to the "honest-to-Pete real Zeeero" whenever it went by. My main recollection of it in the air is of a short takeoff run and a terrific rate of climb (apparently the R2600-engined one was a standout in the climb too). All in all though I'm glad, given what I've now read, that these Zeros are now both safely static in museums...without getting anybody hurt!

S.

[RickH]

Au contrare, Bill, we fully recognize the concept of "organic", "sympathetic", etc... Notice that the F-4 is in flat paint ! It's the judges at Oshkosh who keep picking the shiny showcars.

Even though the F-4 is cleaner than any Navy or USAF squadron bird it still wasn't pretty enough to get a higher award. They completely ignored the complexity and difficulty level involved in making that thing fly.

I think they gave the Grand Champion Jet award to an L-39 that year that looked like a nonflying model airplane.

[Warren_C]

I'll back Doug up with the rivet and Bondo comment. At one point in the wheel well (R/H side, if I recall), you could see there was a quarter inch gap between the wing spar and the upper skin, with a rivet (an s-o, or soft rivet) neatly bucked. But the Bondo had broken loose between the skin and the spar to disclose what Diemert had done.....basically just filled the gaps up with Bondo!

Skaaaweeee stuff.

Gary

I have not seen this video, guess I'll have to secure it. I have heard this name mentioned many times in the pre-fix of what not to do. If this is the airplane that now lives on Ford Island, I will be there on the 2nd and post pictures of how the PAM has it displayed.

My question is how many CAF aircraft did this person apply his questionable skills on?

There are plenty of creative mechanics out there, some are down right scary. Using retro's quote, to relay a personal story. About 97-98 timeframe, my brother and I drove up to an MN airport from San Antonio to buy an Apache that had the Miller Square tail, long nose conversion. During the pre-buy I found the the nose had less than 10 percent of the rivets bucked properly, the rest were bent over or not bucked. I believe the only thing truly holding this nose section on was the paint. The owner was very proud of his aircraft, and pissed that we had insulted him with these details. Also, had evidence of a prior gear up, we also informed him that he should replace the elevator, which had paint and bondo about a quarter inch thick which was cracking off and exposing cracks in the elevator itself. The scary thing to me was this aircraft was flown quite regularly with some major descrepancies. We shook our heads and ran from this one, wished I would have written down the mechanics names that signed this a/c off, so at least in the future pre-buys I could compare names and maint logbooks.

[gregv]

Maybe someone will convince Nobuo Harada to bring one or more of his A6M's over here and get them licensed to fly, because I don't think he can do it in Japan. It would be great to see some of his birds in the air.

Didn't the POF do a tour (or two) with their A6M5 in Japan years ago? Maybe Harada can return the favour, as well as getting a chance to see all his hard work & money pay off.

greg v.

[retroaviation]

My question is how many CAF aircraft did this person apply his questionable skills on?

To my knowledge, the CAF cut all ties with Mr. Diemert after the Zero was delivered and I don't believe he's worked on any other CAF aircraft.

[Randy Wilson]

Steve T - I flew the CAF's A6M2 to and in the Batavia show. When I landed, the ground handlers were trying to park me in the rough mowed corn field with the rest of the Tora birds and AT-6/SNJs and I had to show them the little ground clearance I had in the "real" Zero due to the little fingers that closed the inner gear doors. We worked it out and as you say, from then on I was always the "real Zero".

I think that was the first time a real or semi-real Zero (we did have an R-1830 engine and not the Sakai) had flow anywhere back East. When I would call into center or approach as Mitsubishi 58245, they would wait a minute and then come back with "say aircraft type". After one or two answers of "Alpha Six Mike Two" and even "WWII Japanse Zero", more than once I got back "You are a WHAT?" After they figured out what I was flying the controllers went out of their way to be helpful, I must say.

I won't comment on what one's rear end felt like after sitting on a chute in an A6M2 cockpit for 6-7 hours a day going and coming. But that's part of the glory, right?

Oh, Steve, do you remember the F-14's little demo on Sunday? After some butting of heads between the F-14 demo pilot (who flew out of a local base as the runway wasn't rated for him at Batavia) and the FAA at the show on Saturday about maneuvers toward the crowd, I think, the F-14 finished his demo on Sunday with a full touch and burner go right before the crowd on the Batavia runway. It was great.

Randy

[Randy Wilson]

Gary - you are right - I'd much rather be lucky any day. The day the A6M2's left gear failed to lock despite all tries was one of the longest days of my life, at least that's what it felt like in the cockpit as the gear continued to let go and even completely collapse, as you describe. On that third attempt the left main gear indicator actually showed locked but I didn't really trust it and sure enough after both mains were on and I had just started to think about closing the throttle, out of the corner of my eye I saw the left gear "barber pole" suddenly go unsafe. That slight warning plus the fantastic power of the Zero's ailerons at low speeds were all that saved us on that one.

After talking on the radio to Nelson, who along with Gary and probably everyone else at the Breckenridge airport came out to watch, I decided to try once more to put it down on the runway and this time try and keep a very slight turn going to force the left gear outward. I was running out of options and was just being a bit stuborn, I guess, not wanting to tear up the plane. Once again the gear indicated locked but this time we got lucky and rolled to a stop on both gear - one not locked as Gary notes.

Yes, I did fly the Zero after that, in fact I flew it in several shows and also back and forth to California several times. Despite some of the other shortcomings turned up later, I enjoyed flying the "real" Zero. As friend Bill Coombes (OldShep) noted earlier in this thread, I often told folks that Zero Pilot was an IQ rating!

Randy

[Jack Cook]

I have no idea what that bulge at the wing root is for

Where the rope goes up and down to raise and lower the landing gear.
This then the R-2600 powered a/c I saw at Quantico around 1977 with the
F-86 style drop tank since "Big D" never replaced the tanks in the wings.

[Obergrafeter]

Randy if you can land that Zero at Boerne Stage on that sidewalk we used to call a runway, landing with unlocked indicators shouldn't be to bad on a real runway. Kind of glad that maintenance hog is gone so we can concentrate on other more productive planes. Come see us if you are down this way.
Wayne

[Randy Wilson]

Wayne - thank you for the kind words - you will note that all of these harrowing events took place a few years ago, i.e. when I was younger, perhaps a bit sharper, and certainly a bit less experienced (there is another phrase I could put here, of course). If I get down your way in the near future, I'll be happy to look you up. Thanks for all your support of Gary's work, by the way.

Are you going to make it to Midland for Wing Staff Conference?

Randy

[Steve Nelson]

at P'Cola the airframe now has a more or less normally-proportioned nose instead of the huge R2600 beezer

That makes sense..I could see the backside of the engine through the oil cooler intake, and there was just a bare engine mount. No hoses, wires, or other equipment. The must have just hung a reasonably correctly sized engine on it. The nose case still looks like an R-2600 to me, but then I'm a just a model builder, not a mechanic.

Where the rope goes up and down to raise and lower the landing gear.

From everything else I've heard about this Deimert fellow, that doesn't surprise me...

BTW, this month's Air Classics has a couple of pics of the Pensacola Zero..it's apparently in the restoration shop at the moment for some sprucing up and corrosion control.


SN

[warbirdfinder]

Would anyone know where I could pick up a copy of the video/DVD that the Canadian DOT produced on the Diemert methods of restoration?
Thnaks

[Randy Wilson]

warbirdfinder - not sure about any video produced by the Canadian DOT but The Defender video is available on VHS from the National Film Board of Canada website at http://www.nfb.ca/. I think there is a more direct URL listed in one of the other posts or threads. Hope that helps.

Randy