CAF Zero Question

[Jack Cook]

OK, after watching the defender I'm curious.
What was the problem with the Zero's carb?
Sabotage????? The nimrods who it together wrong?
Where did the water come from???? Did Kato take a wizz
in it on the long road trip down to Texas?
All I can say is that Lefty's a brave man
BTW-did anyone have the guts to fly it after watching
the Defender?????

[Old Shep]

Jack:

I don't know the "real" story about the carb, water, etc...I believe my friend Randy Wilson can speak about the Zero as he did, indeed, fly it AFTER seeing The Defender. However, before you (all) question his sanity, lots of work was done to the airplane after it was delivered to the CAF, much by John Kelly, lots and lots by Nelson Ezell.

Randy can explain however why being the pilot of the Zero made people assume that "Zero" was his IQ!

Old Shep

[Randy Wilson]

Jack - I don't know what turned out to be the issue with the water in the carb, etc. as shown in the video, as I had just recently joined the CAF (1984) and was a lowly SNJ pilot at that point. I think that the CAF supplied the engine but don't know its history. I also understand several sponsors flew the Zero but always with lots of problems until a friend of mine from the DFW area, Dr. John Kelley, sold his own TBM and put a significant amount of money into trying to resolve the Zero's problems. That is a story all to itself.

Anyway after a good amount of rework and repair, John flew the A6M2, which was pretty amazing since he was over 6 feet tall and had to really fold into the cockpit with the mixture control poking him in the leg. I was flying the CAF's original FM-2 Wildcat and was asked to be the backup pilot for the Zero and then flew it regularly after John retired from flying it up to its being grounded for major structural issues in the wings and eventually sold to be come a static display on Ford Island.

I was first shown The Defender after having flown the Zero for a few months. It did alter the way I flew the plane, I do have to say. The good news was that you could do anything needed in the Zero, including out turning a Corsair without pulling more than 2.5-3 Gs - hard to imagine but true. I'm probably one of the very few folks of my generation (I'm 59 and post-WWII obviously) who got to fly both the Zero and Wildcat (and others) against each other in simulated ACM. I'm lucky.

Glad you enjoyed The Defender. Fly safe.

Randy

[Bill Greenwood]

Jack, I'm not surprised that Lefty flew the plane. I'd love to have a chance in a Zero. I might not go more than gliding distance from the airport. They ain't making pilots like they used to. Some of these newcomers want radios that work, they insist on doing preflights,having VFR weather, all that stuff. And the new mechanics that criticize some of Bob Ds creative engineering have forgotten that A&P really stands for Auto Parts. Sure we see and admire all that neat work guys like Gary and Nelson do, but they have to use aluminum and pieces that have part numbers where most of the work is already done. To be able to make a machine air capable with things like PVC pipe and duct tape takes more artistic ability not learned at some stilted mechanics school. Some of the old time mechs were eager to "keep em flying". You could send em a recent photo of your plane in flight and get an annual sighed off. Now guys like that onery Brit that I use want to poke around inside and wear out all the screws taking panels off. When they finish there no money left for a RC cola.

[gregv]

So would it be somewhat accurate to say that Rob Deimert built a really, really nice piece of junk? That's kinda what it sounds like after seeing the Defender and reading all the posts on the topic.

cheers

greg v.

[Steve Nelson]

I've not seen this "Defender" video, but isn't the "zero" in the National Muesum of Naval Aviation one of Deimert's creations? I looked it over a couple of years ago, and it appeared to some zero-shaped parts wrapped around a BT-13 center-section, held together with a lot of pop-rivets. I was told it actually flew..

SN

[Jack Cook]

I don't know about the Navy's Zero but the Marine's Zero was a Diemert rebuild with a R-2600 and F-86 drop tanks that he actually flew to VA. That must have been quite a wild ride!!!
(correct me here if my memory's faulty)

[bdk]

So would it be somewhat accurate to say that Rob Deimert built a really, really nice piece of junk?

On the Val that POF now has, Diemert spliced the elevator pushrod in the tailcone back together using a piece of electrical conduit and pop rivets where the tailcone had been cut apart to carry it by hand through the jungle. You could tell it was (Canadian spec) electrical conduit once the pushrod was removed since it still had the markings on the tube where it was unpainted adjacent to the fuselage skin. He also used masking tape as shims between skin and ribs prior to pop riveting them together.

[retroaviation]

First, the carburetor issue in the Defender (so I'm told) was a clever diversion by Deimert to con the CAFers into forming the thought that "sabotage" took place. Remember, the engine was not only supplied by Deimert, but it was full of metal right after running it. He somehow convinced them that "someone must be out to get that enemy airplane" and they actually paid him to rebuild the junk engine that he supplied. He's apparently an expert con-artist and a geeeenioius at it.

Right after working on Nelson's Tempest, the Zero was one of the first airplanes I worked on at Ezell Aviation. We basically just removed all of the copper tubing that Diemert had used for the hydraulic system and installed aluminum tubing. We didn't replace everything that the airplane needed, because there simply wasn't enough money in the world, much less in the CAF, to take on that project. The main landing gear axles were even made out of galvanized fence post material (no, I'm not kidding).

As Warbird junkies, we are actually fortunate to have that Zero still around, however, since it was a real one...at one time. And one of the reason's it's still in one piece, more or less, is because of Randy Wilson. I personally saw him save the airplane three different times when the left main gear wouldn't lock in the down position (Diemert's homemade gear actuator had come apart on the inside), and as the gear was collapsing on landing, Randy skillfully added power and went around. The last time, the wing tip got so close to the ground, we thought he'd hit it for sure...but it didn't. Finally, luck stepped in, and on the last attempt to land, the pieces of the actuator fell into place and the gear locked long enough for Randy to get stopped. We went out and strapped the gear down to tow it to the hangar. When we put it on jacks and undid the strap, the gear had unlocked again.

As Randy will probably tell you, it's better to be lucky than good sometimes.

Gary

[FG1D Pilot]

I'd love to have a chance in a Zero. I might not go more than gliding distance from the airport.

I don't know much about Japanese aircraft but, what is the glide ratio of a Zero when the wings come off?

I saw the Zero after it was first delivered. It had rivits stuck in bondo to make the rivit pattern.

[Ztex]

I'm guessing we are talking about this airplane?


This was the first time I saw the airplane, at Ellington @ 1988-89. I saw it again a few years later at the CAF hanger at Lancaster. I never saw it fly...both times I saw it, it looked kinda like this.

Interesting stories, thanks
Z

Last edited by Ztex on Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

[retroaviation]

I'll back Doug up with the rivet and Bondo comment. At one point in the wheel well (R/H side, if I recall), you could see there was a quarter inch gap between the wing spar and the upper skin, with a rivet (an s-o, or soft rivet) neatly bucked. But the Bondo had broken loose between the skin and the spar to disclose what Diemert had done.....basically just filled the gaps up with Bondo!

Skaaaweeee stuff.

Gary

[Steve Nelson]

Here are a couple of pics of the zero-like thingy hanging in the museum in Pensacola (judging by the problems Gary mentioned, they may have thought it unsafe to display the plane on its gear.) It looks Ok from ten feet away..another reason it's probably best that it's hung from the ceiling. All that said, it's better than no Zero at all, and most people probably don't look that closely anyway.






A closeup of the "workmanship." Pop-rivets and wrinkled sheet metal are clearly evident. I have no idea what that bulge at the wing root is for, and the tires look more like something from a lawn tractor than an airplane. I wasn't kidding about the BT-13 center-section..you can clearly see the inspection panels, and they match a Vultee hanging nearby.




Cheers!

Steve

[RickH]

I actually saw the Pensacola example it on its gear once. It was in the Blue Angels Atrium along with one of the Lake Michigan Wilcats.

I was at Harlingen when they debuted the Zero. It had not been reworked yet and was unpainted. The thing looked like it had been smeared with brown mud there was so much Bondo on it. The PVC leading edges were a riot!

[Bill Greenwood]

My Warbird guy who has 30 years of experience, referred to the plane as having been "Diemertized", which I guess is a bit like Demonized. Does anybody know if Bob is/was an A&P, what do they call them in Canada, and if he is still around? The Zero is so famous both for it's history and the reputation of how well it handles, that Im very glad someone had the foresight to preserve one back then. Jeff Ethel was very impressed when he flew it. I'm not so sure I'd like to jump in the 109, but I feel like I could fly the Zero pretty well. I'd really like to get the one in Pensacola, truck it up to Fon du Lac, assemble it, fly it into Oskosh and enter it in the Grand Champion judging. Those guys need a break from looking at near perfect airplanes. Like "originality" maybe there should be a category for "creative use of material" on a restoration.