Charlie Brown & His B-17
Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:36 am
An old CAF buddy of mine sent me this. I don't know how accurate it is or where it originated, but its one helluva story. 
Aviation History - Charlie Brown's Story
Charlie Brown was a B-17 Flying Fortress pilot with the 379th Bomber Group at Kimbolton, England. His B-17 was called 'Ye Old Pub' and was in a terrible state, having been hit by flak and fighters. The compass was damaged and they were flying deeper over enemy territory instead of heading home to Kimbolton.
After flying over an enemy airfield, a pilot named Franz Steigler was ordered to take off and shoot down the B-17. When he got near the B-17, he could not believe his eyes. In his words, he 'had never seen a plane in such a bad state'. The tail and rear section was severely damaged, and the tail gunner wounded. The top gunner was all over the top of the fuselage. The nose was smashed and there were holes everywhere.
Despite having ammunition, Franz flew to the side of the B-17 and looked at Charlie Brown, the pilot. Brown was scared and struggling to control his damaged and blood-stained plane.
Aware that they had no idea where they were going, Franz waved at Charlie to turn 180 degrees. Franz escorted and guided the stricken plane to and slightly over the North Sea towards England. He then saluted Charlie Brown and turned away, back to Europe.
When Franz landed he told the c/o that the plane had been shot down over the sea, and never told the truth to anybody. Charlie Brown and the remains of his crew told all at their briefing, but were ordered never to talk about it.
More than 40 years later, Charlie Brown wanted to find the Luftwaffe pilot who saved the crew. After years of research, Franz was found. He had never talked about the incident, not even at post-war reunions.
They met in the USA at a 379th Bomber Group reunion, together with 9 other people who are alive now - all because Franz never fired his guns that day.
Research shows that Charlie Brown lived in Seattle and Franz Steigler had moved to Vancouver, BC after the war. When they finally met, they discovered they had lived less than 200 miles apart for the past 50 years!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robbie
Aviation History - Charlie Brown's Story
Charlie Brown was a B-17 Flying Fortress pilot with the 379th Bomber Group at Kimbolton, England. His B-17 was called 'Ye Old Pub' and was in a terrible state, having been hit by flak and fighters. The compass was damaged and they were flying deeper over enemy territory instead of heading home to Kimbolton.
After flying over an enemy airfield, a pilot named Franz Steigler was ordered to take off and shoot down the B-17. When he got near the B-17, he could not believe his eyes. In his words, he 'had never seen a plane in such a bad state'. The tail and rear section was severely damaged, and the tail gunner wounded. The top gunner was all over the top of the fuselage. The nose was smashed and there were holes everywhere.
Despite having ammunition, Franz flew to the side of the B-17 and looked at Charlie Brown, the pilot. Brown was scared and struggling to control his damaged and blood-stained plane.
Aware that they had no idea where they were going, Franz waved at Charlie to turn 180 degrees. Franz escorted and guided the stricken plane to and slightly over the North Sea towards England. He then saluted Charlie Brown and turned away, back to Europe.
When Franz landed he told the c/o that the plane had been shot down over the sea, and never told the truth to anybody. Charlie Brown and the remains of his crew told all at their briefing, but were ordered never to talk about it.
More than 40 years later, Charlie Brown wanted to find the Luftwaffe pilot who saved the crew. After years of research, Franz was found. He had never talked about the incident, not even at post-war reunions.
They met in the USA at a 379th Bomber Group reunion, together with 9 other people who are alive now - all because Franz never fired his guns that day.
Research shows that Charlie Brown lived in Seattle and Franz Steigler had moved to Vancouver, BC after the war. When they finally met, they discovered they had lived less than 200 miles apart for the past 50 years!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robbie
Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:34 pm
i met franz stiegler at the billy bishops pub in vancouver last rememberance day. he is old and frail but still wears his luftwaffe medals proudly. quite an amazing story.it seems that the more time goes on and the more stories that are told it seems that maybe some of the germans did have a heart afterall.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:30 pm
Wasn't there a painting of this incident?
Dave
Dave
Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:47 pm
chris chandler is the man to talk to about this incident. he can be reached at usaaf379bg@aol.com i seem to remember he had some video and possibly some signed posters of this incident.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:08 pm
an enemy gentleman!! pretty cool!!
Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:38 pm
A little more info. Google it and you see several reports. The one from Charles Brown follows this pretty close...
From the Journal Of The Air force Association....
January 1997, Vol. 80, No. 1
By John L. Frisbee, Contributing Editor
When an Enemy Was a Friend
Brown's B-17 was perhaps the most heavily damaged bomber to return from combat. It survived because of an enemy's act of chivalry.
Dec. 20, 1943, was a typically cold, overcast winter day in Britain as 2d Lt. Charles L. Brown's B-17F lined up for takeoff. It was 21-year-old Charlie Brown's first combat mission as an aircraft commander with the 379th Bomb Group, the target an FW-190 factory at Bremen, Germany. He and his crew of Ye Olde Pub were to become participants in an event probably unique at that time in the air war over Europe--a mission that would remain shrouded in mystery for many years.
The bombers began their 10-minute bomb run at 27,300 feet, the temperature: negative 60 degrees. Flak was heavy and accurate. Before "bombs away," Brown's B-17 took hits that shattered the Plexiglas nose, knocked out the number two engine, damaged number four--which frequently had to be throttled back to prevent overspeeding--and caused undetermined damage to the controls. Coming off target, Lieutenant Brown was unable to stay with the formation and became a straggler.
Almost immediately, the lone and limping B-17 came under a series of attacks from 12 to 15 Bf-109s and FW-190s that lasted for more than 10 minutes. The number three engine was hit and would produce only half power. Oxygen, hydraulic, and electrical systems were damaged, and the controls were only partially responsive. The bomber's 11 defensive guns were reduced by the extreme cold to only the two top turret guns and one forward-firing nose gun. The tailgunner was killed and all but one of the crew in the rear incapacitated by wounds or exposure to the frigid air. Lieutenant Brown took a bullet fragment in his right shoulder.
Charlie Brown figured the only chance of surviving this pitifully unequal battle was to go on the offensive. Each time a wave of attackers approached, he turned into them, trying to disrupt their aim with his remaining firepower. The last thing oxygen-starved Brown remembers was reversing a steep turn, becoming inverted, and looking "up" at the ground. When he regained full consciousness, the B-17 was miraculously level at less than 1,000 feet.
Still partially dazed, Lieutenant Brown began a slow climb with only one engine at full power. With three seriously injured aboard, he rejected bailing out or a crash landing. The alternative was a thin chance of reaching the UK. While nursing the battered bomber toward England, Brown looked out the right window and saw a Bf-109 flying on his wing. The pilot waved, then flew across the B-17's nose and motioned Brown to land in Germany, which the aircraft commander refused to do. After escorting them for several miles out over the North Sea, the Luftwaffe pilot saluted, rolled over, and disappeared. Why had he not shot them down? The answer did not emerge for many years.
The B-17 did make it across 250 miles of storm-tossed North Sea and landed at Seething near the English coast, home of the 448th Bomb Group, which had not yet flown its first mission. The crew was debriefed on their mission, including the strange encounter with the Bf-109. For unknown reasons, the debriefing was classified "secret" and remained so for many years. Lieutenant Brown went on to complete a combat tour, finish college, accept a regular commission, and serve in the Office of Special Investigations, with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and in other Air Force and State Department assignments until his retirement. He now lives in Miami, Fla., where he is founder and president of an energy and environmental research center.
The image of his strange encounter with the Bf-109 remained firmly embedded in Charlie Brown's memory. In 1986, he began a search for the anonymous pilot. Finally, in 1990, former Oberleutnant Franz Stigler, now living in Canada, responded to a notice published in a newsletter for German fighter pilots. By comparing time, place, and aircraft markings, it was determined that Stigler was the chivalrous pilot who had allowed Brown's crew to live. Not surprisingly, Brown and Stigler have become close friends.
On that December day in 1943, there had been two persuasive reasons why Stigler should have shot down the B-17. First, earlier in the day, he had downed two four-engine bombers and needed only one more that day to earn a Knight's Cross. Second, his decision to not finish off the aircraft was a court-martial offense in Nazi Germany and if revealed could have led to his execution. He considered these alternatives while flying formation with the B-17, "the most heavily damaged aircraft I ever saw that was still flying." He could see the wounded aboard and thought, "I cannot kill these half-dead people. It would be like shooting at a parachute."
Franz Stigler's act of chivalry has been justly, though belatedly, honored by several military organizations here and abroad. On the other hand, Charles Brown was not decorated for his heroism over Germany, which never was reported by the 448th Bomb Group at Seething to his commanders. Such are the fortunes of war and its aftermath.
Pubished January 1997. For presentation on this web site, some Valor articles have been amended for accuracy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright Air Force Association. All rights reserved.
From the Journal Of The Air force Association....
January 1997, Vol. 80, No. 1
By John L. Frisbee, Contributing Editor
When an Enemy Was a Friend
Brown's B-17 was perhaps the most heavily damaged bomber to return from combat. It survived because of an enemy's act of chivalry.
Dec. 20, 1943, was a typically cold, overcast winter day in Britain as 2d Lt. Charles L. Brown's B-17F lined up for takeoff. It was 21-year-old Charlie Brown's first combat mission as an aircraft commander with the 379th Bomb Group, the target an FW-190 factory at Bremen, Germany. He and his crew of Ye Olde Pub were to become participants in an event probably unique at that time in the air war over Europe--a mission that would remain shrouded in mystery for many years.
The bombers began their 10-minute bomb run at 27,300 feet, the temperature: negative 60 degrees. Flak was heavy and accurate. Before "bombs away," Brown's B-17 took hits that shattered the Plexiglas nose, knocked out the number two engine, damaged number four--which frequently had to be throttled back to prevent overspeeding--and caused undetermined damage to the controls. Coming off target, Lieutenant Brown was unable to stay with the formation and became a straggler.
Almost immediately, the lone and limping B-17 came under a series of attacks from 12 to 15 Bf-109s and FW-190s that lasted for more than 10 minutes. The number three engine was hit and would produce only half power. Oxygen, hydraulic, and electrical systems were damaged, and the controls were only partially responsive. The bomber's 11 defensive guns were reduced by the extreme cold to only the two top turret guns and one forward-firing nose gun. The tailgunner was killed and all but one of the crew in the rear incapacitated by wounds or exposure to the frigid air. Lieutenant Brown took a bullet fragment in his right shoulder.
Charlie Brown figured the only chance of surviving this pitifully unequal battle was to go on the offensive. Each time a wave of attackers approached, he turned into them, trying to disrupt their aim with his remaining firepower. The last thing oxygen-starved Brown remembers was reversing a steep turn, becoming inverted, and looking "up" at the ground. When he regained full consciousness, the B-17 was miraculously level at less than 1,000 feet.
Still partially dazed, Lieutenant Brown began a slow climb with only one engine at full power. With three seriously injured aboard, he rejected bailing out or a crash landing. The alternative was a thin chance of reaching the UK. While nursing the battered bomber toward England, Brown looked out the right window and saw a Bf-109 flying on his wing. The pilot waved, then flew across the B-17's nose and motioned Brown to land in Germany, which the aircraft commander refused to do. After escorting them for several miles out over the North Sea, the Luftwaffe pilot saluted, rolled over, and disappeared. Why had he not shot them down? The answer did not emerge for many years.
The B-17 did make it across 250 miles of storm-tossed North Sea and landed at Seething near the English coast, home of the 448th Bomb Group, which had not yet flown its first mission. The crew was debriefed on their mission, including the strange encounter with the Bf-109. For unknown reasons, the debriefing was classified "secret" and remained so for many years. Lieutenant Brown went on to complete a combat tour, finish college, accept a regular commission, and serve in the Office of Special Investigations, with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and in other Air Force and State Department assignments until his retirement. He now lives in Miami, Fla., where he is founder and president of an energy and environmental research center.
The image of his strange encounter with the Bf-109 remained firmly embedded in Charlie Brown's memory. In 1986, he began a search for the anonymous pilot. Finally, in 1990, former Oberleutnant Franz Stigler, now living in Canada, responded to a notice published in a newsletter for German fighter pilots. By comparing time, place, and aircraft markings, it was determined that Stigler was the chivalrous pilot who had allowed Brown's crew to live. Not surprisingly, Brown and Stigler have become close friends.
On that December day in 1943, there had been two persuasive reasons why Stigler should have shot down the B-17. First, earlier in the day, he had downed two four-engine bombers and needed only one more that day to earn a Knight's Cross. Second, his decision to not finish off the aircraft was a court-martial offense in Nazi Germany and if revealed could have led to his execution. He considered these alternatives while flying formation with the B-17, "the most heavily damaged aircraft I ever saw that was still flying." He could see the wounded aboard and thought, "I cannot kill these half-dead people. It would be like shooting at a parachute."
Franz Stigler's act of chivalry has been justly, though belatedly, honored by several military organizations here and abroad. On the other hand, Charles Brown was not decorated for his heroism over Germany, which never was reported by the 448th Bomb Group at Seething to his commanders. Such are the fortunes of war and its aftermath.
Pubished January 1997. For presentation on this web site, some Valor articles have been amended for accuracy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright Air Force Association. All rights reserved.
Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:56 pm
Another good version....http://www.vancourier.com/issues02/112102/news/112102nn1.html
Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:58 am
Mr. Stigler later flew an Me-262 with JV 44.
He gave a lecture on flying the Me-262 at the Air Force Museum in 1980 (?). Awesome! They showed a Luftwaffe training film and I recall him making a few jokes about the commentary. He told some anecdotes about the war and other pilots like Galland and Macky Steinhoff. I really wish I had a tape of it.
After the Q and A session, he vaulted off the stage, dashed out of the auditorium and into to the museum's WWII gallery, and leapt onto the wing of the Me-262 for photographs.
Very charismatic guy.
He gave a lecture on flying the Me-262 at the Air Force Museum in 1980 (?). Awesome! They showed a Luftwaffe training film and I recall him making a few jokes about the commentary. He told some anecdotes about the war and other pilots like Galland and Macky Steinhoff. I really wish I had a tape of it.
After the Q and A session, he vaulted off the stage, dashed out of the auditorium and into to the museum's WWII gallery, and leapt onto the wing of the Me-262 for photographs.
Very charismatic guy.
Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:08 am
I think these stories are more common place than most would think.
The story that has always stuck in my mind was of RazorBack P-47 named: "Penrod and Sam" flown by Capt. Robert Johnson
61st Fighter Squadron, 56th Fighter Group, Boxed, England
During one of his first combat experiences, Johnson was nearly shot down over France by a Focke-Wolf FW190. The German pilot was skillful and emptied his guns into the massive Thunderbolt. The German pilot was stunned that the P-47 was still flying, so he pulled up along side of Johnson and looked over at him in his cockpit. The German saw the extensive amount of damage he had done to the American plane, especially blowing out sections behind the pilot. Johnson was not willing to give up and was fighting to keep his plane in the air. He had no ammunition and had lost some of the controls of the fighter. In respect, which was shown many times by both sides, the German pilot escorted Johnson to the English Channel and saluted him as the rugged Pratt &Whitney engine in the lumbering Thunderbolt took him back to his base in England.
Johnson ended his combat duty in May 1944 as the second highest-scoring ace in Europe with 27 confirmed aerial victories. He also flew in the first raids on Berlin in some of the most fierce fighting of the war.
Johnson knew that his true number of aerial kills exceeded 35 aircraft and never claimed any that he destroyed on the ground, which were many.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
The story that has always stuck in my mind was of RazorBack P-47 named: "Penrod and Sam" flown by Capt. Robert Johnson
61st Fighter Squadron, 56th Fighter Group, Boxed, England
During one of his first combat experiences, Johnson was nearly shot down over France by a Focke-Wolf FW190. The German pilot was skillful and emptied his guns into the massive Thunderbolt. The German pilot was stunned that the P-47 was still flying, so he pulled up along side of Johnson and looked over at him in his cockpit. The German saw the extensive amount of damage he had done to the American plane, especially blowing out sections behind the pilot. Johnson was not willing to give up and was fighting to keep his plane in the air. He had no ammunition and had lost some of the controls of the fighter. In respect, which was shown many times by both sides, the German pilot escorted Johnson to the English Channel and saluted him as the rugged Pratt &Whitney engine in the lumbering Thunderbolt took him back to his base in England.
Johnson ended his combat duty in May 1944 as the second highest-scoring ace in Europe with 27 confirmed aerial victories. He also flew in the first raids on Berlin in some of the most fierce fighting of the war.
Johnson knew that his true number of aerial kills exceeded 35 aircraft and never claimed any that he destroyed on the ground, which were many.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:48 am
Thanks for sharing this story Robbie...I had never heard of this one before! 
John
John
Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:01 am
Facinating story. 1st I've heard, but I don't get out much! 
http://www.stormbirdsannex.com/product_ ... cts_id=290
Photo of the pilots reunion (Franz Stigler is to the left, Charles Brown right, Artist Jamie Iverson center)
regards,
t~
http://www.stormbirdsannex.com/product_ ... cts_id=290
Photo of the pilots reunion (Franz Stigler is to the left, Charles Brown right, Artist Jamie Iverson center)
regards,
t~
Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:54 pm
I've met Herr Stigler a couple times, and both he and Mr. Brown came down and gave a talk at a print signing hosted by Ernie Boyette in Jacksonville, FL back in 1999. The story is true, as related above, and the two men consider each other family, even to the point of spending vacation time at each other's houses with their families. It was a long, terrible, tragic war, but there were shining examples of humanity throughout the conflict, and this was one excellent example.
Lynn
Lynn
Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:08 am
Shay wrote:I think these stories are more common place than most would think.
The story that has always stuck in my mind was of RazorBack P-47 named: "Penrod and Sam" flown by Capt. Robert Johnson
61st Fighter Squadron, 56th Fighter Group, Boxed, England
During one of his first combat experiences, Johnson was nearly shot down over France by a Focke-Wolf FW190. The German pilot was skillful and emptied his guns into the massive Thunderbolt. The German pilot was stunned that the P-47 was still flying, so he pulled up along side of Johnson and looked over at him in his cockpit. The German saw the extensive amount of damage he had done to the American plane, especially blowing out sections behind the pilot. Johnson was not willing to give up and was fighting to keep his plane in the air. He had no ammunition and had lost some of the controls of the fighter. In respect, which was shown many times by both sides, the German pilot escorted Johnson to the English Channel and saluted him as the rugged Pratt &Whitney engine in the lumbering Thunderbolt took him back to his base in England.
Johnson ended his combat duty in May 1944 as the second highest-scoring ace in Europe with 27 confirmed aerial victories. He also flew in the first raids on Berlin in some of the most fierce fighting of the war.
Johnson knew that his true number of aerial kills exceeded 35 aircraft and never claimed any that he destroyed on the ground, which were many.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
More detail here: http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_rsj.html
Also, a more dramatized account in Thunderbolt by Robert Johnson & Martin Caidin published, I think in 1958.
Ken
Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:53 pm
tom d. friedman wrote:an enemy gentleman!! pretty cool!!
An Airforce Officer is always a Gentleman..
great stories guys. Thanks for posting.. got anymore?
Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:55 pm
tom d. friedman wrote:an enemy gentleman!! pretty cool!!
An Airforce Officer is always a Gentleman..
great stories guys. Thanks for posting.. got anymore?