Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:32 pm
Sun Dec 31, 2023 9:33 am
mike furline wrote:...Which of the six Corsair's was it? http://www.warbirdregistry.org/corsairr ... istry.html
Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:20 am
Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:33 am
Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:13 pm
Stoney wrote:wonder what ever happened to the Corsairs i saw at Blythe, CA 1970?
Sun Dec 31, 2023 3:21 pm
Dan K wrote:Just an uneducated guess, but might the mysterious indentation have something to do with those pyrotechnics?
Thu Jan 04, 2024 5:49 pm
Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:00 pm
Jerry O'Neill wrote:mike furline wrote:Happened to run across an episode of Black Sheep Squadron today.
1. How was the AT-6/Zero tail wheel retract mod accomplished?
Mike,
The Zeroes in your image "from Baa Baa Blacksheep" are two variants of the "Hollywood North American Zero" The one in the
foreground is actually Frank Tallman's (Tallmantz Aviation) T-6 (N7446C) that he had modified for film work. It is NOT a Tora Tora Tora film modified aircraft. Note the non-retractable, standard T-6 Tail wheel, the rounder canopy, very pointed rudder trailing edge, rudder top not cut down to a lower profile, no "gun hump" between the windscreen and engine cowling, normal T-6 Engine cowl that has not been re-contoured, and no wing to fuselage fairing at the trailing edge. It was sold and has since been returned to standard T-6 appearance and is on display at one of the USAF Bases (I forgot which one!).
The retractable tail wheel on the Tora modified aircraft is an entire BT-13/15 tail wheel structure that they modified to be retractable for the film.
If you spot a T-6 Zero with a standard T-6 tailwheel, it is not one from the film.
Jerry
Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:06 am
Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:33 pm
k5083 wrote:The area in question is flush with the rest of the skin around it in my photos, but there is a discolored patch about the shape and location of the recessed area, indicating it may have been modded by then.
Noha307 wrote:Unanswered Questions
On the rear fuselage of 92132 exist two sets of what have sometimes been referred to as "patches". In actuality, these "patches" are holes that have were drilled into the skin and were later filled with oversized rivets. The area around the holes was then sanded flush – removing the surface layer of anodizing on the aluminum and giving the appearance of a "patch" from a distance.
For many years, it was suggested that the holes (six on the left, four on the right) on either side of the rear fuselage were mounting points for smoke generators used in the filming of Baa Baa Black Sheep. These device(s) were used to replicate damage to the aircraft when the script called for a Corsair to be "shot down".
However, this claim did not stand up to scrutiny. Specifically, the smoke generator in the show was mounted under the right wing root, not attached to the rear fuselage.[1]
In its place, a second claim arose: the holes were the remnants of mounting points for rocket assisted take-off (RATO) bottles.[2] However, analysis of a wartime training film depicting a Corsair with RATO bottles shows that the bottles were mounted farther forward than the location of the holes on 92132. Additionally, the film shows that the unit is attached with three mounting lugs that form a triangular shape. A shape with these dimensions is not possible with the layout of the patches on the right side of the rear fuselage.[3]
An 8AS-1000 RATO bottle (NASM)
While it is still unclear, the truth appears to be that the first explanation was close to the truth, but not exactly correct. In one of the episodes, Pappy Boyington is shot down by his fictional friendly rival Tomio Harachi. When Harachi fires on Boyington's Corsair, a pyrotechnic explosion is seen to emanate from the left rear fuselage of the airplane. While the camera angle is such that the device that produced the explosion is hidden from view, the this is roughly where the holes are located.[4]
Endnotes
[1] "Boyington and Hirachi Shoot Each Other Down - Baa Baa Black Sheep - 1977," YouTube, n.d.; "Hirachi Mocks Boyington's Squadron - Baa Baa Black Sheep - 1978," YouTube, n.d.
[2] Note that, at the time, the units were referred to as "jet assisted take-off bottles". This name appears to have come from the definition of "jet" as a directed and concentrated stream of fluid. However, they are more properly termed "rocket assisted take-off bottles" as the propulsive method was the burning of solid fuel with self-contained oxidizer. In aviation contexts, the word "jet" is normally reserved for engines that ingest oxygen from the atmosphere.
An example of Corsairs using RATO bottles is a series of photographs taken aboard the USS Altamaha (CVE-18) on 1 March 1944. Copies of photographs can be found at Tailhook Topics Drafts, NavSource, and the National WWII Museum.
[3] The Jet Assisted Take-Off of Carrier Aircraft (Bureau of Aeronautics, U.S. Navy, n.d.).
[4] "Boyington and Hirachi Shoot Each Other Down - Baa Baa Black Sheep - 1977," YouTube, n.d.
k5083 wrote:I took several pics of 92132 at Chino in the early 1990s including one closeup of the lower left rear fuselage.
Noha307 wrote:While it is difficult to be certain due to the quality, a close examination of pictures of the airplane taken during and following production of the Baa Baa Black Sheep television series reveals that the registration applied to the airplane appears to be "'34666" instead of the correct "N3466G". Furthermore, the same speck of white paint appears in front of the "3" – where the letter "N" should appear – in both 1976 and 1991.[1] This seems to indicate that it is not the remainder of an "N" that has worn off as the rest of it should have disappeared over time as well.
It is only conjecture, but it seems that the number was "fudged" for the television show. By hiding the leading "N" with an apostrophe and making the last digit resemble a "6" the registration would resemble a U.S. Navy bureau number that would have appeared in the same spot on the rear fuselage underneath the horizontal stabilizer. Although of questionable legality, it would have made the aircraft appear more accurate for the show.
This is supported by the fact that at least two other Corsairs used in the filming, BuNos 97359 and 133710, had the similarly close, but inaccurate registrations: N97353 and N33714, respectively.[2]
Endnotes
[1] Bill Curry, [FG-1D, 92132, in Van Nuys, California], August 11, 1976; Tom Tessier, [FG-1D, 92132, in Chino, California], January 1991.
[2] Rob Mears, "Re: F4U-4 Corsair BuNo.97359," Warbird Information Exchange, May 30, 2013; Rob Mears, "Re: The Corsairs of Baa Baa Blacksheep?," Warbird Information Exchange, September 14, 2010.
Noha307 wrote:Civilian Service
BuNo 92132 entered civilian hands in either 1958 or 1959. The first known picture of the aircraft, at NAF Litchfield Park in Arizona, was taken at this point.[1] A number of interesting details are visible:
- Spraylat, a protective covering applied to aircraft in long term storage, appears on the ground beneath 92132. It has been peeled off in preparation for the aircraft's recovery by Ed Maloney.
- The number 29 is present on at least the underside of the left wing outboard of the landing gear and the right landing gear fairing. The cowling panels have been removed, but based on a comparison to the neighboring aircraft and the remaining portion of the aircraft number on the nose bowl that the number 29 was painted on the nose as well.
- Hand drawn artwork, made using the same implement to write the notes in the point below, is visible on the forward fuselage ahead of the left wing root. It is not possible to discern what is being depicted with complete certainty, but it appears to be a cloud shaped object, possibly with text.
- The neighboring aircraft, BuNo 92436, has the handwritten notes "SAVE AIR MUSEUM" and "MAYDAY III" written on the cowling and forward fuselage respectively. Spray painted underneath the former is the date "3-17-59".
The next mention of the aircraft is on 12 July 1959, when it is described in an article in the Pomona Progress-Bulletin as being on display with a Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate at Cable Airport. It goes on to state that both aircraft will be given a cosmetic restoration and exhibited at the Air Museum in Claremont, California.[2] Despite the fact that the Air Museum has owned more than one Corsair, this can be confirmed to be 92132 as the article states the Corsair has "three 'kill' flags painted on the side and [is] named 'The Frisco Kid'" – marking that are visible on the aircraft in later pictures. A subsequent note in the 26 July 1959 issue of the Los Angeles Times notes that the airplane is now on exhibit and the Ki-84 will follow in two weeks.[3]
From its acquisition by the Air Museum until its restoration for Baa Baa Black Sheep, 92132 carried the number 29 on its cowling. It was suggested by one individual that this number was painted on the airplane because it was intended to represent the airframe flown by ace Ira C. Kepford. However, according to the photograph of the aircraft being recovered from storage, it appears that this was not the case and the number was simply retained from its military service. Yet, the possibility remains that the reason 92132 was selected by Ed Maloney for preservation out of all of the other Corsairs at NAS Litchfield Park was because of a presumed connection to Kepford based on this number.
The cosmetic restoration of 92132 involved the application of white paint to the underside of the fuselage and wings. Interestingly, this paint appears to be similar to the type of paint used to apply invasion stripes.[4] In later photographs of 92132, it appears to be worn off in the same way seen on American aircraft in 1944-45.[5] A photograph of the aircraft taken after the restoration also shows that faux stains meant to represent gun gas exhaust were added beneath the gun ports.[6]
The only apparent subsequent change before 92132's restoration for use in the television show was that the dome for the propeller hub was painted yellow at some point between August 1960 and July 1966.[7]
Endnotes
[1] Edward T. Maloney, [FG-1Ds BuNo 92132 and 92436 at NAF Litchfield Park in Arizona], 1958, Photograph.
[2] "Two World War II Air Foes Readied for Museum Display," Progress-Bulletin, July 12, 1959, 4-1.
[3] "News Notes," Los Angeles Times, July 26, 1959, 14.
[4] Invasion stripes were black and white recognition markings applied to American aircraft for the invasion of Normandy in 1944 to prevent friendly fire.
[5] [FG-1D, BuNo 92132, at the Air Museum in Claremont, California], August 14, 1960, Photograph.
[6] [FG-1D, BuNo 92132, at the Air Museum in Claremont, California], August 1959, Photograph.
[7] [FG-1D, BuNo 92132, at the Air Museum in Claremont, California], August 14, 1960, Photograph; Kenneth M. Hare, [FG-1D, BuNo 92132, at the Air Museum in Ontario, California], July 1966, Photograph.
Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:49 pm
Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:13 pm
Fri Jan 19, 2024 4:23 pm
JohnB wrote:Considering the film was done on a budget, it couldn't have been that expensive or high tech, I doubt if they reinvented the wheel.
Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:44 pm
Jerry O'Neill wrote:Mike,
The Zeroes in your image "from Baa Baa Blacksheep" are two variants of the "Hollywood North American Zero" The one in the
foreground is actually Frank Tallman's (Tallmantz Aviation) T-6 (N7446C) that he had modified for film work. It is NOT a Tora Tora Tora film modified aircraft. Note the non-retractable, standard T-6 Tail wheel, the rounder canopy, very pointed rudder trailing edge, rudder top not cut down to a lower profile, no "gun hump" between the windscreen and engine cowling, normal T-6 Engine cowl that has not been re-contoured, and no wing to fuselage fairing at the trailing edge. It was sold and has since been returned to standard T-6 appearance and is on display at one of the USAF Bases (I forgot which one!).
The retractable tail wheel on the Tora modified aircraft is an entire BT-13/15 tail wheel structure that they modified to be retractable for the film.
If you spot a T-6 Zero with a standard T-6 tailwheel, it is not one from the film.
Jerry
Tue Jan 23, 2024 6:35 pm
Noha307 wrote:Appendix A: JATO Usage
Based on all available evidence, it appears as though JATO usage on Corsairs was extremely limited. The available visual record depicts only experimental testing and not operational use.
USS Altamaha Tests
One series of photographs documents a test aboard the USS Altamaha (CVE-18) on 1 March 1944.
It begins with NARA photograph 80-G-215654, which shows a Corsair in the middle of the deck shortly after igniting its JATO bottles, but with the tail wheel still on the deck. Behind it are an assortment of aircraft – two Wildcats, two Avengers, a Hellcat and another Corsair. This is further evidence that event represented is a test as such an unusual group would never have been operated together on a single ship.[1]
The second photograph shows the Corsair farther into its takeoff run – with its tail wheel in the air. As the aircraft has moved closer to camera, three letters on the engine cowling and rudder are now legible: ATO. It is evident that all of the aircraft in the shot have been marked in the same way. This acronym likely stood for “assisted take off” and presumably indicated that the aircraft had been modified with special equipment to mount the JATO bottles. Also visible is the Corsair’s side number, C91.[2]
A third photograph shows the aftermath. All but the Hellcat and a previously obscured Dauntless have taken off and the deck of the carrier is covered in a white residue expelled by the JATO bottles.[3]
Further details regarding these tests comes from an individual by the name of Rich Leonard. In multiple forum postings he describes how his father, LCDR William N. Leonard, was the pilot of Corsair C91, BuNo 56048, during the test.[4] He provided two additional photographs of the test.[5]
The first shows C91 from the right side prior to launch with a JATO bottle mounted directly beneath the cockpit and only a few inches behind the trailing edge of the wing flap.
The second shows C91 after it has passed the mid-point of the flight deck, with smoke streaming from the JATO bottle.
Rich, citing William, states that “[t]he concept was investigated a means to increase the number of planes on escort carriers thru shortening the deck space needed for launch by increasing take off speed”, but that it was not used operationally as:Rich Leonard wrote:[T]he exhaust from the JATO units covered everything with an ugly white glop that was hard to remove, especially from the windscreens and canopies of the aircraft parked on the stern. There was some suspicion that this glop might also have some corrosive effect on aircraft and equipment if not removed immediately.[6]
In any event, the spray would have certainly reduced the tempo of aircraft operations as the windshield of each aircraft would had to have been cleaned following the launch of the one ahead of it.
Land-Based Tests
Another set of tests were captured on video for a Bureau of Aeronautics training film called The Jet Assisted Take-Off of Carrier Aircraft.[7] A photograph of an Avenger taken at the same time as the film, was used as the headline image for an article in the October 1944 issue of Bureau of Naval Personnel Information Bulletin titled Navy Now Has Jet Units to Aid Planes in Takeoff.[8]
The roughly 13-minute film depicts the preparation and mounting of JATO bottles on a Hellcat. It then switches to footage of a Wildcat, Corsair, Hellcat, Dauntless and Avenger, alternating between unassisted and assisted takeoffs.
Manuals and Drawings
A review of available production drawings does not reveal any documentation for structural mountings for JATO bottles:
- They are not listed in the scramble takeoff or takeoff subsections in the normal operating instructions section or the operational equipment section of the 1 June 1946 edition of the F4U-1 pilot’s handbook.[9]
- Similarly, the furnishings subsection in the major component parts section and the useful and military load section of the 15 April 1946 edition of the F4U-1 erection and maintenance manual do not include them either.[10]
- The 1 December 1945 edition of the F4U-1 parts catalog for the does not show any sort of mounting points on illustrations of the side panel assemblies for the front section assembly.[11]
Other JATO Use
Although not related to Corsairs, the other major intended use of JATO takeoff during World War II was for flying boats performing air-sea rescue duty.[12]
Endnotes
[1] Photograph found via: Paul Yarnall and Fabio Peña, “USS Altamaha (ACV-18),” NavSource, 22 June 2023.
[2] Photograph found via: Tommy H. Thomason, “JATO,” Tailhook Topics Drafts, 16 July 2013.
[3] Photograph found via: Paul Yarnall and Fabio Peña, “USS Altamaha (ACV-18),” NavSource, 22 June 2023.
[4] Rich identifies BuNo 56048 as an F4U-1D in one of his posts. However, a page on Joe Baugher’s website lists the production batch it belonged to as being F4U-1As. (Rich Leonard (R Leonard), “Zero Length Launch of Manned Fighters,” WW2Aircraft.Net, 27 February 2021; Joe Baugher, “Third Series (50360 to 60009),” Joe Baugher’s Home Page, 13 April 2023.)
It is also worth noting that that, according to Baugher, the 25 Corsairs following BuNo 56048 were delivered to the Royal Navy. Therefore, it stands to reason that 56048 was selected for testing as it was the last one in the batch.
[5] Rich Leonard (R Leonard), “Zero Length Launch of Manned Fighters,” WW2Aircraft.Net, 27 February 2021.
[6] Rich Leonard (R Leonard), “Corsairs with JATO?,” Narkive, 25 May 2005.
In another post, he suggests that it was the mixture of the residue with salt spray from the ocean that made it hard to remove. (Rich Leonard (R Leonard), “Zero Length Launch of Manned Fighters,” WW2Aircraft.Net, 27 February 2021.)
[7] The Jet Assisted Take-Off of Carrier Aircraft (Bureau of Aeronautics, U.S. Navy, n.d.).
[8] “Navy Now Has Jet Units to Aid Planes in Takeoff,” Bureau of Naval Personnel Information Bulletin, October 1944, 39.
The setting of both the film and the photograph establish that they were taken at the same time, but the angle the Avenger is seen from does not exactly match the footage in the film, meaning that it cannot be a still from the film.
The other photo in the article, which is located at the bottom, is the second official photograph mentioned above.
[9] Pilot’s Handbook for Navy Model F4U-1, F4U-1C, F4U-1D, F3A-1, FG-1, FG-1D Airplanes, AN 01-45HA-1, 1 June 1946, 33–35, 51–58.
[10] Erection and Maintenance Handbook for Navy Models F4U-1, F3A-1, FG-1, F4U-1C, F4U-1D, FG-1D Airplanes, AN 01-45HA-2, 15 April 1946, 515–548.
[11] Aircraft Parts Catalog Navy Models F4U-1, F3A-1, FG-1, F4U-1D, F3A-1D, FG-1D Airplanes, AN 01-45HA-4, 1 December 1945, 534–545.
[12] The Air Sea Rescue Manual, JANP 300 (Washington, D.C., July 1945) 50–51; U. S. Rocket Ordnance: Development and Use in World War II, 1946, 52–53.