The City of Irvine Destroys PV-1 Ventura

[Zac Yates]

Pics or it didn't happen.

Pics of...?

[Dan Jones]

An archaeologist would be horrified, and this is the problem. So long as we consider historic aircraft in this way, Irvine PV-1s and WW2 wrecks will not be considered as objects of cultural worth. If John Q Public sees a recovered wreck being plundered for its data plate, why should he think that his town's displayed aircraft has any more worth? It's just junk to exploit after all (not my view, but you get the point).

Or to paraphrase, "These are, after all, machines in which someone's relative fought and often died. As such they are of as much cultural worth as some holy relic from the Middle Ages, or Christ's cup."

Meanwhile, I'll still be saddened by the loss of any historic machine, whether it's by deliberate scrapping or deliberate "restoration". If we really are that desperate to see a Stuka fly then why not just build a replica without an original dataplate and preserve the original? Surely that's better than building a replica and scrapping the original?

I don't think it's quite that black and white. The Stuka in question is a pretty good hypothetical example. First of all (and again, this is just a discussion, not an acrimonious argument) there are currently two whole, and largely original Stukas in the world, so if you want to see a "real" Stuka you can. (I've seen the one in Hendon and I was surprised to find that it was that bloody big - it's the size of a TBM!) And my understanding is nobody died in that wreck, so it's nobody's touchstone to a dead relative. And having seen one in person I can fairly safely say that that wreck really doesn't convey what a Stuka is or was, nor the impression it makes when you stand in front of one. If it were the last remains of a Ju87 in the world then fine, don't touch it, put it in a national museum somewhere like Berlin or London and protect it like the Crown jewels. But it isn't, and if someone is prepared to make the sacrifices and commitment to return it to the air then I welcome that.

The other, more sinister part of the argument is, if nothing is done with it, how long do you think it will last before going off for scrap ultimately? I would go to a reasonable amount of trouble to see it myself, but probably just once, and I like Stukas. It'll never be any kind of museum draw as is, nor will some wealthy enthusiast build an air conditioned hangar to house it in it's current state. Rebuilding/restoring it, whichever you like, might be the only way to see it survive in any form. I believe that we're generationally moving in the direction of losing our past and our heritage as each succeeding generation seems to have less and less interest in preserving it.

Last edited by Dan Jones on Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

[StudeDave]

Pics or it didn't happen.

Found some.
(in the link provided by the OP)

Not pretty....

[AG pilot]

It is really disturbing that this occurred!

[kennsmithf2g]

I can remember going out West for vacation many years ago, (in the 1980's) and passing Denver's airport when they were "cleaning it up" of all the abandoned planes that were just pushed in a big pile for scrapping. My wife would not stop. I think she was afraid I would buy a few of them.....


In 1979 when job interviewing in Chicago, I passed over a large scrapyard that was full of steam engines. Several years later I went back and they had already been cut-up for scrap.

[Nathan]

History is being destroyed all over the country. Lots of museums are closing and are being sued and the corrupt U.S. judiciary system is leading the way. It's just the start.