Unlimited Type Ratings

[Noha307]

Could someone explain the near-mythical "unlimited type rating" in detail? I've heard about it, but details are incredible scarce - to the point that most people aren't even aware it exists - so it is hard to find any concrete information about it. (To the point that I'm not exactly sure how to refer to it. Unlimited type rating? "All classes and categories" authorization?[1] "All makes and models"? "Authorized Experimental Aircraft"?[2]) My understanding is that part of the reason for that is that the FAA no longer issues such certifications.[3] For the same reason, pretty much all of the references I've found mention that only a double digit number of pilots still hold one. So, I'm also curious who in particular still has one.

Even what exactly it allows is difficult to determine and it seems like there is some confusion even among pilots. The way I've heard it explained, it allows a pilot to fly any piston powered aircraft - if they can demonstrate proficiency in three randomly chosen aircraft.[4] I've also seen it compared to a letter of authorization.[2] I know there is some relationship between LOAs and type ratings, but I've never fully understood that either. I thought that LOAs were more or less just a temporary type rating, but as someone who is neither a pilot nor a mechanic, I am under no illusions this may be incorrect.

Given the way that it has been characterized, unlimited type ratings seem similar to the history of limited type certificates. That is to say, they are both legacies from an earlier time – the post-World War II period – when aviation regulations and enforcement was much more lax and that as time has gone on the FAA has attempted to sunset them.

[Tim Savage]

Could someone explain the near-mythical "unlimited type rating" in detail? I've heard about it, but details are incredible scarce - to the point that most people aren't even aware it exists - so it is hard to find any concrete information about it. (To the point that I'm not exactly sure how to refer to it. Unlimited type rating? "All classes and categories" authorization?[1] "All makes and models"? "Authorized Experimental Aircraft"?[2]) My understanding is that part of the reason for that is that the FAA no longer issues such certifications.[3] For the same reason, pretty much all of the references I've found mention that only a double digit number of pilots still hold one. So, I'm also curious who in particular still has one.

Even what exactly it allows is difficult to determine and it seems like there is some confusion even among pilots. The way I've heard it explained, it allows a pilot to fly any piston powered aircraft - if they can demonstrate proficiency in three randomly chosen aircraft.[4] I've also seen it compared to a letter of authorization.[2] I know there is some relationship between LOAs and type ratings, but I've never fully understood that either. I thought that LOAs were more or less just a temporary type rating, but as someone who is neither a pilot nor a mechanic, I am under no illusions this may be incorrect.

Given the way that it has been characterized, unlimited type ratings seem similar to the history of limited type certificates. That is to say, they are both legacies from an earlier time – the post-World War II period – when aviation regulations and enforcement was much more lax and that as time has gone on the FAA has attempted to sunset them.

The All Makes and Models applied to Experimental category aircraft only. It was discontinued around in the early 2000s. There is a move to bring it back but it continues to run into FAA roadblocks despite Congress asking for it. Back in the day you were issued an LOA to fly an experimental aircraft that required a checkride. They later changed this to an Experimental Type Rating and they may have changed it to something else now....I don't recall. Back in the day if you had three Experimental LOAs you could apply for the All Makes Models (if you had only single engine experimental LOAs it was a single engine all makes and models). There are bunch of guys I know that have the All Makes and Models. I was just talking to a Experimental Aircraft Examiner that was at our house this week doing a checkride for my son, and he said now if you hold the All Makes and Models after you fly a new airplane you notify the FAA and they add it your certificate.

If you hold a All Makes and Models license it does not make you legal to fly an aircraft in the Limited Category that requires a type rating. For instance you can hold an all makes and models and go fly an Experimental B-25, but you couldn't fly a Limited one...

I may be off on some of the details as it has been a while...but this is the gist of it...

[mgeorge511]

I have the "All makes/models single engine piston powered' on my license

Pretty sure it is for all aircraft over 800HP, irrespective of how it is licensed.

There is one for single and one for Multi engine aircraft.

I haven't added any aircraft in a while but when I did add the P-40 I didn't have to go through as much of an ordeal as someone who doesn't have one. No 3 take offs and landing with someone watching etc. I was told it was as easy as just read the book and talk to someone who has flown one.

My 3rd was in a Seafury with Neil Anderson.

Doesn't matter to me as I still got a ck out from Tom Richards for safety.

[Randy Wilson]

Tim's description matches my memory when I held an unlimited LOA for single-engine piston-powered experimental aircraft. It allowed me to fly experimental aircraft over 800 hp. My first three LOAs before the unlimited LOA were in FM-2, A6M2 and SB2C.

Randy

[Noha307]

There is a move to bring it back but it continues to run into FAA roadblocks despite Congress asking for it.

As a follow up, as noted by the EAA, Section 806 of the 2024 FAA Reauthorization Act has reinstituted the policy. For those interested in submitting their thoughts, a request for comment has been issued and is open until June 9th.

[lucky52]

Just out of curiosity, if MAAM decides to fly their P-61, and since there are no current P-61 pilots, who would be able to legal fly it and how would that work? Thanks.

[Warbird Kid]

Just out of curiosity, if MAAM decides to fly their P-61, and since there are no current P-61 pilots, who would be able to legal fly it and how would that work? Thanks.

I'm assuming someone that is type rated in B-25s and A-26s (being the closest size, power, weight, etc. to the P-61).

[Ken]

It would be beneficial if someone who has been around a long time would write up a summary of the path rating program has taken over the years. It has the potential to be confusing and a tad frustrating.

I believe the current term is Experimental Type Authorization. On my certificate, under the list of traditional type ratings (B767, etc) is a separate line that says, "Authorized Experimental Aircraft" and then lists "DC/AD1" (the FAA's goofy designation for Skyraider).

The times this authorization is required (depending on how the airplane is certificated, weight, Vne speed, HP, etc) and the training & paperwork process for getting the rating seem a bit nebulous. And I never quite embraced why one P-51 is Limited and another is Experimental, but that's just me.

As far as the P-61 goes, I assume that the PIC will apply for permission to train and will do so under the supervision of a multi-CFI that has "all models" or who is otherwise authorized by the local FSDO. The flights can be accomplished solo and, when ready, a checkride will be administered by an authorized experimental aircraft examiner watching from the ground. I would like to know more - so please correct me if y'all have more accurate info.

Ken

[tow-3]

Just out of curiosity, if MAAM decides to fly their P-61, and since there are no current P-61 pilots, who would be able to legal fly it and how would that work? Thanks.

just off the top of my head, i would guess there is a pilot in chino ca that would be very high on the list of people that would be approved very easily.

[Archer]

I'm probably thinking of the same pilot.... but the interesting question is how this is dealt with on the paperwork side. I think Ken has covered the likely scenario in his post, but I don't know the ins and outs of that.

As for P-51s and how they're registered. The 'Limited' ones are most likely airframes that were registered on the TC LTC-11 which originated with De Panti Aviation / Cavalier Aircraft. But you can only put a P-51C, P-51D or P-51K (or one of their derivatives) on that TC, and only if at one point they complied with that TC. Any other P-51 subtype or one that was restored to full military config and you can only register it as an 'Experimental'.

[ZRX61]

Just out of curiosity, if MAAM decides to fly their P-61, and since there are no current P-61 pilots, who would be able to legal fly it and how would that work? Thanks.

I imagine the same process that Stewart Dawson followed to fly the A20?.. or did the AeroTrader guys fly it first?

[p51buff]

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