B-29 Jet Ace "Command Decision" ...

[Mark Allen M]

The beginning of the jet age toward the end of WWII was a huge change in military aviation. Fast and powerful jet fighters could now climb to the high altitudes that heavy bombers like the Boeing B-29 Superfortress were thought to be safe at. Although the bombers could still fight back with their own guns, bombing raids in the next war would become even more dangerous.

During the Korean War, the B-29 was initially employed in much the same way as it was during WWII. Large formations flew at high altitude on strategic daytime bombing runs. However, the B-29 quickly bombed itself out of a job as North Korea’s few strategic targets and industries were destroyed in a short amount of time. Moreover, the Soviet MiG-15 jet fighter posed a serious threat to the bomber formations. After the loss of 28 aircraft, B-29s were restricted to nighttime raids; primarily supply-interdiction missions.

The B-29 flew the duration of the Korean War, from 1950-1953. During that time, B-29s flew a total of 20,000 sorties and dropped 180,000 tons of bombs. Although 57 Superfortresses were lost to enemy action, B-29 gunners are credited with 27 enemy kills. The most notable of these was the B-29 named Command Decision, with a record five MiG-15 kills; the world’s only bomber “jet ace.”

To become an ace, a pilot must score five aerial kills. Although bomber crews are not officially recognized as aces for their aerial kills, unofficial counts are recorded by the individual crews. However, the Air Force does officially recognize Command Decision‘s historic five jet kills. During the Korean War, Command Decision flew with the 28th Bomb Squadron, 19th Bomb Group. In addition to their five jet kills, the crew flew a total of 121 combat missions and dropped 2,500,000 millions pounds of bombs.

According to the Air Force, the aircraft was named after a popular 1948 film about the difficult decisions and heavy casualties faced by bomber crews over Europe during WWII. Today, Command Decision and her crew are honored with a walk-through fuselage display in the Korean War Gallery at the National Museum of the United States Air Force. Although the fuselage is not the original Command Decision, it is painted to represent the famous aircraft. The exhibit does feature equipment from the original aircraft including its compass, altimeter, and sighting station.
Sources:
https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles ... a-jet-ace/
https://www.b-29s-over-korea.com/19th_b ... Korea.html










Capt. Donald M. Covic makes a “command decision” by flipping a coin, just like the artwork on his B-29 (U.S. Air Force)


Command Decision was the best known B-29 of the Korean War. Her gunners shot down five jet fighters, three in one confrontation. She flew a total of 121 missions.






The nose and fuselage of B-29 Command Decision on display at the US Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio. Command Decision was one of the most famous of the B-29's having flowing 121 missions and shooting down a total of five MiG jet fighters in Korea. Note that this is not the real Command Decision aircraft on display, rather, it is a B-29 painted to look like the real Command Decision as it flew in the Korean conflict.

[hurricane_yank]

What happened to the actual aircraft?

[wendovertom]

According to Joe Baugher:

87657 Delivered to USAAF 9Jun45. Assigned to 878th Bomb Squadron, 499th Bomb Group
Named ‘Off Limits Limited’
Assigned to 28th Bomb Squadron, 19th Bomb Group, Andersen AFB, Guam. Deployed to Kadena AB, Okinawa
Accident 23Aug52 taxying at Kadena AB, Okinawa
"Command Decision" is certainly the best known B-29 of the Korean War. It is the only bomber ace
and last B-29 bomber retired from the USAF. Officially credited with shooting down five MiG-15s.
"Command Decision" was the USAF Museum's 1st B-29. It was retired to Wright-Patterson AFB around the
beginning of 1957. At that point it was intact and whole. A couple of years later the
museum received ‘Bockscar’ late in 1961. "Command Decision" took a back seat to "Bockscar" and at s
ome point was to be transferred to another museum. During this transfer "Command Decision" was
damaged by a helicopter airlift and ended up back at the USAF Museum as a fuselage walk-through display.
Around the late 1980’ or early 1990’s, "Command Decision's" fuselage was
being transferred to another museum again and this time was loaded on a flatbed truck. While in
transit the truck carrying the fuselage was involved in an accident, wrecking not only the truck
but "Command Decision" as well. At this point the museum acquired the fuselage of 44-62139 and
repainted in the markings of and displayed it as "Command Decision".

[gemmer]

Personally, I have a tough time buying the 5 mig kills ace thing. It sounds like a replay of WW2 propaganda when things weren't going well. Colin Kelly sank a battleship. Buzz Wagner was an ace. The Swoose was rebuilt from wrecks at Clark and then kicked ass. B-17s sank ships at Midway. The AVG fought Zeros. LBJ flew a bombing mission all the way to the target and back. And that's just in the Pacific. When I was a kid living at McDill in 1951 the word my dad and his friends got was that the B-29 fire control and turrets were too slow to track the Migs and any hits they got were pure luck. My dad was a WW2 vet and a reservist called up for Korea. He was not keen on flying on B-29s in Korea.

[marine air]

My former AME, the late Dr. Charles R. Smith, was a lieutenant flying B-29's on the first day of the Korean War. He said it was very disorganized and they were sent out with the instructions, "GO out and find something and bomb it." The initial attacks by the North Koreans were in (?) Mig-3's or some other prop fighter. The North Koreans would come at them very disorganized and making strafing runs in more or less straight lines. They were poorly trained. After a period of time, months later, something changed and the attacks were professional, accurate and the fighters had tactics to evade being hit. He said it was very obvious the North Koreans weren't in those airplanes. He said they knew the Russians themselves were flying the Mig-3s, LA-7s or whatever they were.
So, in my view most kills would've likely been before the Russians got involved. Also, how well trained would those Russians have been? The Russians tactics were very primitive at the beginning of WW II but advanced somewhat by 1945. Also, the Russian propellor driven aircraft wouldn't be much faster than the B-29s. IF they were flying in straight lines, and only ten or twenty knots faster, it would be a much easier target to hit by the gunners.

What do you guys think ?

[hurricane_yank]

According to Joe Baugher:

87657 Delivered to USAAF 9Jun45. Assigned to 878th Bomb Squadron, 499th Bomb Group
Named ‘Off Limits Limited’
Assigned to 28th Bomb Squadron, 19th Bomb Group, Andersen AFB, Guam. Deployed to Kadena AB, Okinawa
Accident 23Aug52 taxying at Kadena AB, Okinawa
"Command Decision" is certainly the best known B-29 of the Korean War. It is the only bomber ace
and last B-29 bomber retired from the USAF. Officially credited with shooting down five MiG-15s.
"Command Decision" was the USAF Museum's 1st B-29. It was retired to Wright-Patterson AFB around the
beginning of 1957. At that point it was intact and whole. A couple of years later the
museum received ‘Bockscar’ late in 1961. "Command Decision" took a back seat to "Bockscar" and at s
ome point was to be transferred to another museum. During this transfer "Command Decision" was
damaged by a helicopter airlift and ended up back at the USAF Museum as a fuselage walk-through display.
Around the late 1980’ or early 1990’s, "Command Decision's" fuselage was
being transferred to another museum again and this time was loaded on a flatbed truck. While in
transit the truck carrying the fuselage was involved in an accident, wrecking not only the truck
but "Command Decision" as well. At this point the museum acquired the fuselage of 44-62139 and
repainted in the markings of and displayed it as "Command Decision".

Why would they transfer it only to use a substitute in its place. Very odd decision making.

[C VEICH]

Why would they transfer it only to use a substitute in its place. Very odd decision making.

Because, presumably, the original was scrapped after being damaged in the two separate incidents.

[hurricane_yank]

Why would they transfer it only to use a substitute in its place. Very odd decision making.

Because, presumably, the original was scrapped after being damaged in the two separate incidents.

Huh?

"During this transfer "Command Decision" was
damaged by a helicopter airlift and ended up back at the USAF Museum as a fuselage walk-through display.
Around the late 1980’ or early 1990’s, "Command Decision's" fuselage was
being transferred to another museum again and this time was loaded on a flatbed truck."

My question was why would they transfer it OUT as it was already on display only to display a stand-in?

[Noha307]

I found an old postcard from 1966 at our museum today that shows a B-29 fuselage at the then USAFM. The caption on the back clearly describes it as a "replica" and if you zoom in on the nose you can even read that the placard states "B-29 fuselage painted in the markings of Command Decision":

If you compare it with pictures from today, it looks exactly the same - even the placard is identical. So, either the original had already left the museum by that point or they never had it to begin with.

[JohnB]

My former AME, the late Dr. Charles R. Smith, was a lieutenant flying B-29's on the first day of the Korean War. He said it was very disorganized and they were sent out with the instructions, "GO out and find something and bomb it."

They had local (Japan) B-29s operational in the first day of the war?
I have never heard that, then again, I'm no Korean War expert.

But think about it, such instructions aren't as damning as probably intended or sounds today.
The Communists invaded on a large front.
Clearly, there was a lack of Intel data or SK would not have been surprised by the invasion. So the command could tell the crews to hit a specific target.
So, if you have bombers, but no intel...but are facing an enemy on a broad front...The order to hit "something" makes sense given there are plenty of targets of opportunity.

I doubt if things were so lax once the shock wore off and stateside SAC units got involved.

[sandiego89]

According to Joe Baugher:


.........Around the late 1980’ or early 1990’s, "Command Decision's" fuselage was
being transferred to another museum again and this time was loaded on a flatbed truck. While in
transit the truck carrying the fuselage was involved in an accident, wrecking not only the truck
but "Command Decision" as well. At this point the museum acquired the fuselage of 44-62139 and
repainted in the markings of and displayed it as "Command Decision".

Anyone know where the museum got 44-62139? (now painted as Command Decision) By the late 80's or 90's most of the good ones had been pulled from China Lake.

does 44-62139 have any significant history in its own right?

[p51]

According to Joe Baugher:Around the late 1980’ or early 1990’s, "Command Decision's" fuselage was being transferred to another museum again and this time was loaded on a flatbed truck. While in transit the truck carrying the fuselage was involved in an accident, wrecking not only the truck but "Command Decision" as well. At this point the museum acquired the fuselage of 44-62139 and repainted in the markings of and displayed it as "Command Decision".

Well, at least it wasn't destroyed intentionally as they did all the B-32 Dominators which had bene planned to have one preserved at the museum but never was. Or the B-49 flying wings...

[junkman9096]

Or the B-49 flying wings...

Any truth to the rumor that once the decision to destroy the extant B-49s was made, thus "no going back", the general who made the decision went on to a lucrative job at Convair? Coincidence? Part of the general conspiratorial atmosphere of today? Yes, I'm aware that the technology was not around to make them more viable but tech can be found or made.

[JohnB]

Why would Convair be afraid of a cancelled airplane?
They had already gotten their contracts for the B-36.

The Northrops were, to use a modern term, immature technology, an unstable bombing/photographic platform.
The Edwards crash probably did not help public/congressional perception.


When all else fails, look at a conspiracy theory logically.
Was the B-49 a competitor to the B-36...did it have comparable range?
No.
Or was it closer to the B-47?
Yes.
In which case one would have to rewrite the conspiracy theories to making Boeing the bad guy.

[menards]

Or the B-49 flying wings...

Yes, I'm aware that the technology was not around to make them more viable but tech can be found or made.

It took the apollo program and billions of dollars to develop the tech to make the flying wing more viable. Only the subsequent apollo applications program where they installed the DSKY flight computer into an F-8 to show fly by wire control did they green light the B-2 flying wing. When tech caught up, Northrop got to buid their plane.


Awesome pic of the off-the-shelf Apollo Guidance Computer wired into the avionics bay of the F-8

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... y_wire.jpg