Battle of Brittain Movie question.
Sun May 21, 2006 8:48 pm
I finally got around to watching the movie for the first time. And while i enjoyed the movie whole heartedly it left me with a couple of questions.
Firstly - This Movie was made back in 1969 and their usage of actual aircraft and flying scenes were great even if the special effects were a lil hokee. If the movie were made today i would imagine things would be the opposite. The explosions would seem more realistic then the aircraft. Considering that it is cheaper to use CG aircraft.
Does anyone think that if BOB were produced today that they would use actual aircraft or rely heavily on a special effects company?
Secondly - Does anyone know if there is a tally of how many aircraft were used in the filming of BOB? How many used are still around and were are they?
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Firstly - This Movie was made back in 1969 and their usage of actual aircraft and flying scenes were great even if the special effects were a lil hokee. If the movie were made today i would imagine things would be the opposite. The explosions would seem more realistic then the aircraft. Considering that it is cheaper to use CG aircraft.
Does anyone think that if BOB were produced today that they would use actual aircraft or rely heavily on a special effects company?
Secondly - Does anyone know if there is a tally of how many aircraft were used in the filming of BOB? How many used are still around and were are they?
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Sun May 21, 2006 8:56 pm
Does anyone think that if BOB were produced today that they would use actual aircraft or rely heavily on a special effects company?
I'd say it would be a combination of both, with a lot more CGI than the original.
Sun May 21, 2006 9:36 pm
They'd probably call it the first part of "Pearl Harbor" if they were to do it.B-29 Super Fort wrote:Does anyone think that if BOB were produced today that they would use actual aircraft or rely heavily on a special effects company?
I'd say it would be a combination of both, with a lot more CGI than the original.
Mon May 22, 2006 5:22 pm
After the filming can anyone tell me what happened to all CASA2.111's and Ha-1112's. Did these aircraft go back to spain or what?
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Mon May 22, 2006 10:36 pm
Abunch showed up in Big Springs Texas. The Casas that is. About thirteen of em. Don't know how many Connie has left.
Mon May 22, 2006 11:30 pm
Obergrafeter wrote:Abunch showed up in Big Springs Texas. The Casas that is. About thirteen of em. Don't know how many Connie has left.
Who is Connie if i might ask?
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Mon May 22, 2006 11:40 pm
If you want to know everything there is to know about this B grade movie I suggest the experts at...
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/
They will happily answer (for the 10,000th time) all your questions...
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/
They will happily answer (for the 10,000th time) all your questions...
Mon May 22, 2006 11:55 pm
Shay,
For the opening scene which is the German "inspection" of the He111's, the film crew had the use of 25 Casa 2111's. All were Spanish built, merlin powered, He111's, and were part of the 32 remaining Merlin powered C2111’s that were still "in service" with the Spanish Air Force. This filming was done at Tablaba Air Base in Spain.
4 of the 2111's were subsequently brought back to the UK and were added to the UK register as follows:
B2-I-25, re-registered as G-AWHA,
B2-I-57 re-registered as G-AWHB,
T8-B-124 re-registered as G-BDYA and
BR2-I-10 re-registered as G-BFFS
I think there were 17 HA1112's that also came to the UK after filming, although someone else maybe able to correct me on that figure.
CASA T8-B-124 went to the CAF and, crashed in Wyoming a couple of years ago with the very unfortunate loss of 2 aircrew.
CASA B2-I-77 (which is now undergoing restoration at the German Air Museum) was also used as one of the camera ships for the aerial shots.
The CASA built He111-H16 that is at the Cavanaugh Flight Museum, was one of the aircraft used during the filming at Tablada, and after filming returned to its duties with the Spanish Air Force at 403 squadron at Cuatro Vientos. It subsequently served with a couple of other squadrons, and remained in service until 21st January 1975. It was declared surplus in May 1976, and sold at auction on 23rd June 1976.
The Cavanaugh Flight Museum also has one of the Buchons used in the filming.
I think Connie Edwards currently has 6 or 7 of the Ha-1112's (Buchon's).
Needle
For the opening scene which is the German "inspection" of the He111's, the film crew had the use of 25 Casa 2111's. All were Spanish built, merlin powered, He111's, and were part of the 32 remaining Merlin powered C2111’s that were still "in service" with the Spanish Air Force. This filming was done at Tablaba Air Base in Spain.
4 of the 2111's were subsequently brought back to the UK and were added to the UK register as follows:
B2-I-25, re-registered as G-AWHA,
B2-I-57 re-registered as G-AWHB,
T8-B-124 re-registered as G-BDYA and
BR2-I-10 re-registered as G-BFFS
I think there were 17 HA1112's that also came to the UK after filming, although someone else maybe able to correct me on that figure.
CASA T8-B-124 went to the CAF and, crashed in Wyoming a couple of years ago with the very unfortunate loss of 2 aircrew.
CASA B2-I-77 (which is now undergoing restoration at the German Air Museum) was also used as one of the camera ships for the aerial shots.
The CASA built He111-H16 that is at the Cavanaugh Flight Museum, was one of the aircraft used during the filming at Tablada, and after filming returned to its duties with the Spanish Air Force at 403 squadron at Cuatro Vientos. It subsequently served with a couple of other squadrons, and remained in service until 21st January 1975. It was declared surplus in May 1976, and sold at auction on 23rd June 1976.
The Cavanaugh Flight Museum also has one of the Buchons used in the filming.
I think Connie Edwards currently has 6 or 7 of the Ha-1112's (Buchon's).
Needle
Tue May 23, 2006 12:22 am
I think Connie Edwards currently has 6 or 7 of the Ha-1112's (Buchon's).
I was over at www.preservedaxisaircraft.com and they show 9 to Private
Owner, Big Springs, Texas. No telling how many he still has unless someone
here knows.
N90607
N1109G
N90604
N4109G
G-AWHE
G-AWHG
+ 3 unregistered
Tue May 23, 2006 6:14 am
Steve, are you genuinely serious about Battle of britain being a B grade film? Or simply trying to provoke the Brits for a laugh?
It was one of the most expensive films made in its day, if not the most. It has a raft of A list actors, a supreme script, fantastic flying scenes, realistic use of history and accurate period sets, costumes, etc. Plus it tells the story from all sides, and tells it well. It has become a great classic and very few war films, in fact very few history films, have come close to matching it.
Nah, you must have been winding us up with the comment...
The CASA 2111's (Heinkels) were all still serving with the Spanish Air Force. The filmmakers had access to use around 70 of them. They also purchased two, which were the ones that went to the UK to film scenes with the squadron of Spitfires and Hurricanes.
The HA1112's that went to the UK were 'during' filming, not after. These were almost all purchased by the film company from a scrap pile as they'd already left service and Hamish Mahaddie was just in time to get them, and had to avoid some nasty intimidation and blackmail from scrappers who were also bidding for them. Four others had been bought by the CAF and their pilots, including Edwards, joined the film to fly their aeroplanes.
Incidentally. only one Spitfire went to Spain, all the mass Spitfires vs Messerschmitt scenes were done in the UK and Southern France.
Find the Leonard Mosley book for a great read behind the scenes of this epic film, including the history of the filmmakers, the close calls to the film never being made, the weather problems that forced the budget up and up, the tantrums by Adolph Galland who made a right fool of himself as an adviser, and lots of amusing and interesting moments on set. Moseley was a professional biographer, and in this book he followed the making from start to finish, recording what he saw candidly, no holds barred. Great stuff. One of the few boooks I've read twice and will read again in the future.
It was one of the most expensive films made in its day, if not the most. It has a raft of A list actors, a supreme script, fantastic flying scenes, realistic use of history and accurate period sets, costumes, etc. Plus it tells the story from all sides, and tells it well. It has become a great classic and very few war films, in fact very few history films, have come close to matching it.
Nah, you must have been winding us up with the comment...
The CASA 2111's (Heinkels) were all still serving with the Spanish Air Force. The filmmakers had access to use around 70 of them. They also purchased two, which were the ones that went to the UK to film scenes with the squadron of Spitfires and Hurricanes.
The HA1112's that went to the UK were 'during' filming, not after. These were almost all purchased by the film company from a scrap pile as they'd already left service and Hamish Mahaddie was just in time to get them, and had to avoid some nasty intimidation and blackmail from scrappers who were also bidding for them. Four others had been bought by the CAF and their pilots, including Edwards, joined the film to fly their aeroplanes.
Incidentally. only one Spitfire went to Spain, all the mass Spitfires vs Messerschmitt scenes were done in the UK and Southern France.
Find the Leonard Mosley book for a great read behind the scenes of this epic film, including the history of the filmmakers, the close calls to the film never being made, the weather problems that forced the budget up and up, the tantrums by Adolph Galland who made a right fool of himself as an adviser, and lots of amusing and interesting moments on set. Moseley was a professional biographer, and in this book he followed the making from start to finish, recording what he saw candidly, no holds barred. Great stuff. One of the few boooks I've read twice and will read again in the future.
Tue May 23, 2006 8:19 am
Dave's recommendation is a good account of 'life on the set' and 'back in 1940'. If you really want to know about ALL the aircraft and how it happened (Including the Psychedelic Monster and the helicopter, as well as the Proctukas and how to use a condom to blow up your Messerschmitt...) you need the two books by the late, great Robert J Rudhall on the film, published by 'Ramrod Publications', now out of print, and very collectable. 'Battle of Britain The Movie' ISBN 0 9519832 9 6, and 'Battle of Britain Film the Photo Album' 0 9538539 3 4.
Some of Needle's info is incorrect (Casas to the UK were 2 not four, more came later, and were nothing to do with the film) and there's a load of data and great period colour footage from the 60s in Robert's books, as well as being 99.999 correct - it was a lifetime's work.
Interestingly Connie's stash of Buchons are all STILL in the film colours (something of a record) and there was one two-seat Buchon used in the filming (of only two ever built) and Connie's got that; which has to be one of the rarest warbirds ever...
PS: I think Steve was a bit traumatised by the devotion the film gets on the Flypast Forum.
Some of Needle's info is incorrect (Casas to the UK were 2 not four, more came later, and were nothing to do with the film) and there's a load of data and great period colour footage from the 60s in Robert's books, as well as being 99.999 correct - it was a lifetime's work.
Interestingly Connie's stash of Buchons are all STILL in the film colours (something of a record) and there was one two-seat Buchon used in the filming (of only two ever built) and Connie's got that; which has to be one of the rarest warbirds ever...
PS: I think Steve was a bit traumatised by the devotion the film gets on the Flypast Forum.
Tue May 23, 2006 11:50 am
Dave Homewood wrote:Steve, are you genuinely serious about Battle of britain being a B grade film? Or simply trying to provoke the Brits for a laugh?
It was one of the most expensive films made in its day, if not the most. It has a raft of A list actors, a supreme script, fantastic flying scenes, realistic use of history and accurate period sets, costumes, etc. Plus it tells the story from all sides, and tells it well. It has become a great classic and very few war films, in fact very few history films, have come close to matching it.
Nah, you must have been winding us up with the comment...
I give BoB a C- in on my list, and that's generous in my opinion. Good war movies have drama, which is sorely lacking in BoB. I put this movie in the same category as those 70's disaster movies; Earthquake, Poseidon Adventure, Towering Inferno...plenty of money and stars, but also a weak script and stiff acting.
Good war movies have a drama and a screen play that allows the actors to take us on a journey. Movies such as Sink the Bismarck, 12 O'Clock High and The Cruel Sea have this (and I'll add Band of Brothers, which, although not strictly a movie, is just superb). BoB doesn't even come close. Sure, the planes are fun, but it's just too bad the screenplay is so amateurish.
Tue May 23, 2006 12:34 pm
srpatterson wrote:Dave Homewood wrote:Steve, are you genuinely serious about Battle of britain being a B grade film? Or simply trying to provoke the Brits for a laugh?
It was one of the most expensive films made in its day, if not the most. It has a raft of A list actors, a supreme script, fantastic flying scenes, realistic use of history and accurate period sets, costumes, etc. Plus it tells the story from all sides, and tells it well. It has become a great classic and very few war films, in fact very few history films, have come close to matching it.
Nah, you must have been winding us up with the comment... :twisted:
I give BoB a C- in on my list, and that's generous in my opinion. Good war movies have drama, which is sorely lacking in BoB. I put this movie in the same category as those 70's disaster movies; Earthquake, Poseidon Adventure, Towering Inferno...plenty of money and stars, but also a weak script and stiff acting.
Good war movies have a drama and a screen play that allows the actors to take us on a journey. Movies such as Sink the Bismarck, 12 O'Clock High and The Cruel Sea have this (and I'll add Band of Brothers, which, although not strictly a movie, is just superb). BoB doesn't even come close. Sure, the planes are fun, but it's just too bad the screenplay is so amateurish.
Let's not forget "The Dirty Dozen", "The Great Escape", "Kelly's Heroes" and "von Ryan's Express." Admittedly, however, the "Me-109s" in the last film were laughers at best.
Shade Ruff
Tue May 23, 2006 3:07 pm
Steve,
I guess you must rate Tora, Tora, Tora much the same way then too?
I disagree with your view of the film. I don't look to Battle of Britain for pure escapist entertainment with a dramatic personal storyline. I look at at in the way in which it was intended, a record of the Battle for the younger generations to be able to understand what went on. It's a drama documentary, not a Hollywood action flick/romance like most other war films, and as it was co-written by someone who actually took part as a pilot, Ben Fisz, and had input from advisers who flew on both sides (Bader, Stanford-Tuck, Townsend, Galland, Dowding, etc) and also had official RAF backing, I won't ever knock it. It's designed as an accurate portrayal that tells the story as it was, not entertainment. War shouldn't be entertaining, should it?
Shade Ruff, as for "The Dirty Dozen", "Kelly's Heroes" and "von Ryan's Express", all I can say is OH DEAR GOD!!!!!!!!!
I guess you must rate Tora, Tora, Tora much the same way then too?
I disagree with your view of the film. I don't look to Battle of Britain for pure escapist entertainment with a dramatic personal storyline. I look at at in the way in which it was intended, a record of the Battle for the younger generations to be able to understand what went on. It's a drama documentary, not a Hollywood action flick/romance like most other war films, and as it was co-written by someone who actually took part as a pilot, Ben Fisz, and had input from advisers who flew on both sides (Bader, Stanford-Tuck, Townsend, Galland, Dowding, etc) and also had official RAF backing, I won't ever knock it. It's designed as an accurate portrayal that tells the story as it was, not entertainment. War shouldn't be entertaining, should it?
Shade Ruff, as for "The Dirty Dozen", "Kelly's Heroes" and "von Ryan's Express", all I can say is OH DEAR GOD!!!!!!!!!
Tue May 23, 2006 3:14 pm
I agree with Steve. BoB was NOT intended as a documentary. If it was, it has enough historical mistakes to be a poor one. It was intended precisely as a blockbuster action movie and it deservedly flopped. Same with Tora Tora Tora. Both had nice airplanes, good flying, were broadly accurate, and were very important to the warbird preservation movement both for raising consciousness of preserved warbirds and for their role in preserving the specific warbirds used in the films. As movies, they were bad. So it is no wonder that we in the warbird community love to watch them and practically no one else does.
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