Re: Forgotten Daily
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:52 pm
DH82EH wrote:Cool thread Scott.
I may not be very bright, but I certainly know better than to get in a Mustang fight with John Terrell
I enjoy all the great knowledge and input.
Andy
^^^ Yeah, what he said.
I absolutely love it when John Terrell splains planes, 'specially Mustangs. And I love the little historical wrinkles that prove tough to iron out, like the A-36/Apache name thang. It kinda separates the tourists from the locals, so to speak.
Re: Forgotten Daily
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:08 am
Michel Lemieux wrote:Like the Wolf Scott.....nice new pic for me!
Tks for sharing and being there.....trully appreciated.
Your very welcome Michel!
Re: Forgotten Daily
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:15 am
Grumman F-14A-1-GR Tomcat/Bu. 157980
Forgotten Jets
#forgottendaily
Forgotten Jets
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Re: Forgotten Daily
Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:13 pm
Regarding the Apache/Mustang argument, to reiterate upon what I wrote in my first post...
The name "Apache" was what North American initially suggested when they originally built the NA-73X and were trying to sell it to the US Government. That was in 1940, and the NAA sales department really pushed the name, at that time, including this advertisement from October 1940. Note that this is not an A-36, and this is two-years prior to the A-36 even entering production. The artist's illustration is that of the NA-73X. Of course the image of a diving aircraft, tied with the "Apache" name, would seem to make the case for an "Apache dive-bomber", but that's not the case.
The USAAC/early USAAF didn't have any names officially assigned to aircraft - there were nicknames, but no official naming. Prior to June 1942, there was no official name in the US for North American's aircraft, other than the NAA's proposed name of "Apache". That changed in June 1942 when official names were assigned to all of the USAAF aircraft in service and in production. When it came to NAA's aircraft, at which time only the P-51 (no letter designation) was in production for the USAAF, the RAF's chosen name of "Mustang" was officially assigned - by this time, NAA really ditched their original idea of "Apache" altogether, in favor of the name "Mustang" as well, which they favored more. Following the official naming in June 1942, A-36 production, with the Mustang name, began in September 1942, and P-51A production came even later. "Apache" never officially entered the USAAF's vocabulary and you don't see the name in any A-36 maintenance or pilot's manuals.
The USAAF P-51 (no letter designation)/F-6A Mustang entered service in early 1943, and the A-36 Mustang entered service within a few weeks later. Both types were officially named "Mustang", but both types were also initially reported on in the press as being "Apaches". However, North American Aviation's own newspaper, from as early as August and October 1943, referred to the A-36 as the Mustang.
As I mentioned before, there is all kinds of evidence and well supported that an MTO-based A-36 unit referred to their A-36's as "Invaders", and even tried getting the USAAF to officially assign that name to the A-36 but were of course unsuccessful. They came up with the name "Invader" so as to separate themselves in the press from all of the other "Mustang" units. There is an official military WWII-era deck of spotter playing cards stored at the IWM in England, that when you come to the card for the A-36 it has the name "Invader".
The name "Apache" was what North American initially suggested when they originally built the NA-73X and were trying to sell it to the US Government. That was in 1940, and the NAA sales department really pushed the name, at that time, including this advertisement from October 1940. Note that this is not an A-36, and this is two-years prior to the A-36 even entering production. The artist's illustration is that of the NA-73X. Of course the image of a diving aircraft, tied with the "Apache" name, would seem to make the case for an "Apache dive-bomber", but that's not the case.
The USAAC/early USAAF didn't have any names officially assigned to aircraft - there were nicknames, but no official naming. Prior to June 1942, there was no official name in the US for North American's aircraft, other than the NAA's proposed name of "Apache". That changed in June 1942 when official names were assigned to all of the USAAF aircraft in service and in production. When it came to NAA's aircraft, at which time only the P-51 (no letter designation) was in production for the USAAF, the RAF's chosen name of "Mustang" was officially assigned - by this time, NAA really ditched their original idea of "Apache" altogether, in favor of the name "Mustang" as well, which they favored more. Following the official naming in June 1942, A-36 production, with the Mustang name, began in September 1942, and P-51A production came even later. "Apache" never officially entered the USAAF's vocabulary and you don't see the name in any A-36 maintenance or pilot's manuals.
The USAAF P-51 (no letter designation)/F-6A Mustang entered service in early 1943, and the A-36 Mustang entered service within a few weeks later. Both types were officially named "Mustang", but both types were also initially reported on in the press as being "Apaches". However, North American Aviation's own newspaper, from as early as August and October 1943, referred to the A-36 as the Mustang.
As I mentioned before, there is all kinds of evidence and well supported that an MTO-based A-36 unit referred to their A-36's as "Invaders", and even tried getting the USAAF to officially assign that name to the A-36 but were of course unsuccessful. They came up with the name "Invader" so as to separate themselves in the press from all of the other "Mustang" units. There is an official military WWII-era deck of spotter playing cards stored at the IWM in England, that when you come to the card for the A-36 it has the name "Invader".
Re: Forgotten Daily
Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:54 pm
Re: Forgotten Daily
Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:09 pm
I love this information about the Apache vs. Mustang. Thanks a lot gentlemen for an informative discussion!
Re: Forgotten Daily
Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:10 pm
Grumman S-2E Tracker/Bu. 152883
Forgotten Props
#forgottendaily
Forgotten Props
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Re: Forgotten Daily
Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:46 am
Re: Forgotten Daily
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:55 pm
Re: Forgotten Daily
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:16 am
Re: Forgotten Daily
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:32 pm
Re: Forgotten Daily
Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:57 pm
Douglas A-3 Skywarrior/Bu. 144850
Re: Forgotten Daily
Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:37 am
OV-10 Bronco/Bu. 155452
