USS Lexington (CV-2) wreck found .. 4 March 2018 [revised]

[Stan_W]

A few observations that (to me anyway) are undeniable.

1. The F4F was indeed flown by Gayler, but also undeniably shows that another pilots name was painted over to allow Gayler's name to be applied.

2. Same as above for the 'F-5', this proof certainly helps with the argument that this particular F4F could very well have been flown by O'hare. Which is extremely cool.

3. Every aircraft shown in the photos shows where the life rafts were taken out and used to by the crew to abandon ship. You can see this on the F4F fuselage and the TBD wings. Also very interesting.

Quite a time capsule in those photos.

I also can't help but notice the signs of overpainting around the name. Let's assume (for the sake of argument) that this airplane marked as F-5 is the same airframe Gayler was officially assigned (F-13 buno 3986) During the O'Hare flight and photoshoot there is no evidence of a name painted on the aircraft however, ALL of the other markings present precisely match the bird on the seafloor. Could they have hidden Gayler's name for Butch's photo op and re-applied it later?

[Courier Sportster]

A little disappointing but still super-cool! So, depth, cold, and darkness is not quite the guarantee of preservation we are coming to now anticipate. Pretty dissolved there! Makes you wonder why this one, and not that one. Veddy interesting. The creatures and crud growing on our relics are very weird and amazing, like a Roger Dean poster or something. The descent to the bottom that day must have been just as violent and catastrophic as can be. The "kiting" even with folded wings, I imagine them sort of flying to the bottom...

[dakoblue]

Ho w this is possible

Somebody's got some 'splainin to do... unless Petrel covered a WHOLE lot more territory than anyone realizes (which seems extremely unlikely). I'm guessing someone just transposed a number... what do you show for 4537 or 4513?

Lynn

4531

[Mark Allen M]

This looks to be an early photo of the LEX?

[lmritger]

This is the earliest BuNo I have yet seen where we have definitive proof of a 34151/Interior Green primer being used as opposed to aluminum lacquer. To quote Joe Biden, this is a big effing deal (at least to me). So this proves that everything from 0291 onwards left the factory with a green interior... that is a whole lot earlier in the production run than I ever imagined.

The crew of the R/V Petrel are my new heroes.

Lynn

A question for the hive mind... if a plane went in for depot-level maintenance in 1940, would the fabric control surfaces have been re-covered?

0291 is a pretty early ship (the 23rd built), and we know for a fact that 0300 and the other TBDs which were part of the initial deliveries to VT-2 all carried aluminum lacquer interiors because there are good shots from the factory showing this. Yet here we have 0291 very, very clearly showing green. And it's not just the framing of the rudder; if you look at the rudder traverse area on the fin, there's some green there too.

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!

Lynn

[Mark Allen M]

So TBD 'T-2' was found? did I missed that one?


Here's 'T-2'

[Dan Jones]

This is the earliest BuNo I have yet seen where we have definitive proof of a 34151/Interior Green primer being used as opposed to aluminum lacquer. To quote Joe Biden, this is a big effing deal (at least to me). So this proves that everything from 0291 onwards left the factory with a green interior... that is a whole lot earlier in the production run than I ever imagined.

The crew of the R/V Petrel are my new heroes.

Lynn

A question for the hive mind... if a plane went in for depot-level maintenance in 1940, would the fabric control surfaces have been re-covered?

0291 is a pretty early ship (the 23rd built), and we know for a fact that 0300 and the other TBDs which were part of the initial deliveries to VT-2 all carried aluminum lacquer interiors because there are good shots from the factory showing this. Yet here we have 0291 very, very clearly showing green. And it's not just the framing of the rudder; if you look at the rudder traverse area on the fin, there's some green there too.

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!

Lynn

The rudder would have been covered in cotton, which doesn't age well compared to the stuff we have now, but even with being mostly outside and in the salt air all the time, it should have lasted at least seven or eight years. I'd guess that's factory fabric either original to the airplane or supplied as a spare rudder.

[dakoblue]

This is the earliest BuNo I have yet seen where we have definitive proof of a 34151/Interior Green primer being used as opposed to aluminum lacquer. To quote Joe Biden, this is a big effing deal (at least to me). So this proves that everything from 0291 onwards left the factory with a green interior... that is a whole lot earlier in the production run than I ever imagined.

The crew of the R/V Petrel are my new heroes.

Lynn

A question for the hive mind... if a plane went in for depot-level maintenance in 1940, would the fabric control surfaces have been re-covered?

0291 is a pretty early ship (the 23rd built), and we know for a fact that 0300 and the other TBDs which were part of the initial deliveries to VT-2 all carried aluminum lacquer interiors because there are good shots from the factory showing this. Yet here we have 0291 very, very clearly showing green. And it's not just the framing of the rudder; if you look at the rudder traverse area on the fin, there's some green there too.

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!

Lynn

dig here https://books.google.pl/books?id=u5uXAw ... &q&f=false

[Shay]

Looks like the poor old SBD's and the remains of that one F4F must have been right on top of one of the big explosions on Lex, but the TBD's certainly fared well.

Assuming one did lift a couple of TBD's up to the surface, what's the procedure to then "de-salinate" and stabilize them, and how long does it take? I imagine you'd need a tanker full of fresh water to start. I wonder what those rent for a day?

The Mariner's Museum in Hampton Roads has experience with this and has a page regarding it: http://www.monitorcenter.org/countering-the-effects-of-corrosion/


This is obviously a unique situation due to the environment at that depth but precautions will have to be taken to prevent further deterioration. Not sure about the Aluminum but iron or steel parts will corrode at an exponential rate if left exposed to the air if they do not go though a desalination process. We had 2 18th century cannons mounted on pedestals in front of one of my NAVY commands. They had not been properly treated after being recovered and were in terrible condition by the time I last saw them. The iron will just fall apart.

I was present when the USS Monitor's turret was brought ashore at the Mariner's Museum. To protect it during the barge transit from the recovery site to the museum they had an elaborate sprinkler system to continually wet down the Turret & Dahlgrens to prevent them from drying out.

The turret was recovered in 2002 but due to its sheer mass of iron it still resides in a desalination tank. These aircraft would not require as long of course but the recovery team would have to plan for stabilizing the corrosion of the wrecks during their transit back to land.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[marine air]

Fascinating pics and interesting comments. It may be my imagination, but it seems like the barnacles have focused on the areas of the planes that were collection points for human sweat. On the Wildcat, notice they are centered where the pilot's elbow would've been when flying with the canopy open. Also on the Devastator's vertical fin where the deck hands would be pushing the airplane around by hand. Also the wings where guys would've been folding them manually.
The barnacles seem to be attracted to either human salt/sweat or the organic motor oil used at the time.

[lmritger]

Fascinating pics and interesting comments. It may be my imagination, but it seems like the barnacles have focused on the areas of the planes that were collection points for human sweat. On the Wildcat, notice they are centered where the pilot's elbow would've been when flying with the canopy open. Also on the Devastator's vertical fin where the deck hands would be pushing the airplane around by hand. Also the wings where guys would've been folding them manually.
The barnacles seem to be attracted to either human salt/sweat or the organic motor oil used at the time.

I don't know that I would have ever made that connection... that's a fascinating observation!

Shay, I live literally 5 miles from the Mariners Museum, and we're members over there- I may need to pay them a visit in the next week or so.

Lynn

[dakoblue]

So TBD 'T-2' was found? did I missed that one?


Here's 'T-2'

203 mm guns were later removed

[Nathan]

The SBDs appear to have been damaged by fire. The TBDs were aft-ship when it went down and there was no fire there. In a famous photo of the flight deck on fire you see fire mid ship were SBDs were parked.

[Nathan]

my deductions on why some aircraft are in better condition then others.

The lone F4F up in front of the fire I suspect is "F-5"(it is away from the fire and totally intact. There is one or two F4Fs behind that one on fire and could be the wreck with just a wing left. There are several SBDs on fire behind the parked F4Fs, and the TBDs aft are void of any fire with their wings folded.

Attachments

[lmritger]

my deductions on why some aircraft are in better condition then others.

The lone F4F up in front of the fire I suspect is "F-5"(it is away from the fire and totally intact. There is one or two F4Fs behind that one on fire and could be the wreck with just a wing left. There are several SBDs on fire behind the parked F4Fs, and the TBDs aft are void of any fire with their wings folded.

I'm inclined to believe you're correct here, Nathan. A couple of those SBD wrecks very clearly display fire damage, so this seems most likely.

Lynn