Official B-29 Doc Restoration Thread

[b29driver]

That 3rd. paragraph was not clear to me.Does FIFI require an F/E on board when she flies?

The issue is whether the crew member occupying the engineer seat and performing engineer duties holds an FAA Flight Engineer Certificate and is current.

Since neither FIFI or DOC is a certificated aircraft their issued operating limitations provide the answers to these questions. Current powers determining that have taken a different stance on DOC.

There are only two B-29 current certificated flight engineers in the universe at this time. Unless someone has a B-29 simulator in their barn, all training will have to be done in the airplane.

Which comes first....the chicken or the egg?

[wendovertom]

B29 driver - I assume but for the cost and limited flight time availability there would be a line of folks to work on getting FE certified right?

Tom P.

[b29flteng]

There is two current (14 CFR 91.529) Reciprocating Engine powered FAA Certificated flight engineers in this country as of right now. We are rated in any reciprocating engine aircraft requiring a flight engineer.

[WIXerGreg]

I assume Brad is the other that's still current?

[b29flteng]

No, Brad doesn't have an FAA certificate.

[Brad]

Two of our Engineers have FAA certificates. The other six of us are certified, trained and receive annual checkrides through the CAF, in accordance with our operating limitations.

[b29flteng]

Brad and the others are working on getting their FAA Recip powered Flight Engineer certificate. Right Brad????

[Brad]

Brad and the others are working on getting their FAA Recip powered Flight Engineer certificate. Right Brad????

It's on my list!

[octane130]

That 3rd. paragraph was not clear to me.Does FIFI require an F/E on board when she flies?

The B-29 cannot be flown without a flight engineer; it wasn't made to. Most instruments, warning lights, circuit breakers and switches are not available on the pilots' tiny instrument panels or the center console. I've flown in the cockpit of Fifi three times, attended two ground schools and my Dad was a flight engineer in B-29s in 1950.

Thanks!

[flyingsailor]

That 3rd. paragraph was not clear to me.Does FIFI require an F/E on board when she flies?

The B-29 cannot be flown without a flight engineer; it wasn't made to. Most instruments, warning lights, circuit breakers and switches are not available on the pilots' tiny instrument panels or the center console. I've flown in the cockpit of Fifi three times, attended two ground schools and my Dad was a flight engineer in B-29s in 1950.

Thanks!

I think your confusion is that FIFI does not require an FAA certified engineer; however there is still an FE onboard (the FE is trained and evaluated by an FAA examiner, however there are additional hoops to get the FAA certification). The FAA has determined that DOC will only be operated with a FAA certified engineer.

Hope this clears it up.

[Iclo]

And what are the obscure reason to have different level of rating to operate two planes of the same type ? Both Fifi and Doc are "Experimental" or I'm wrong ?

[Warbirdnerd]

DoD just cleared Doc to use the runway!

The United States Department of Defense has granted B-29 Doc approval to use the non-joint-use runway at McConnell Air Force Base in Wichita for final ground testing and eventual first flight operations.

Docs Friends“The approval from the Pentagon is another important milestone along our path to first flight,” said Jim Murphy, Doc’s Friends Restoration Program Manager. “With the airworthiness certificate from the FAA we received a few weeks ago, and now permission from the Pentagon to use the runway at McConnell, first flight for Doc is imminent.”

The authorization signed by officials at the Pentagon means Doc’s flight crew will begin conversations with base leaders to schedule high-speed taxi testing and eventually takeoffs and landings. The restoration team has been performing minor maintenance and systems tests on the ground while awaiting approval from the Pentagon.

“We still have to run medium and high-speed taxi tests, as well as other ground, systems and instrument testing prior to first flight. Those tests will begin soon and we hope to have the plane in the air within the next few weeks. Our restoration volunteers have worked 16 years to get this far and we’re a few final steps away completing the first stage of Doc’s mission to honor those who built, flew and maintained the B-29 warbird,” said Murphy.

The ground testing schedule and scheduling of first flight is weather dependent. Public viewing locations and a timeline for first flight will be released as the event approaches. Information will be provided online at www.b-29doc.com and via releases delivered to the media.

Found it here:
http://www.b-29doc.com/2016/06/24/depar ... orce-base/

[b29flteng]

And what are the obscure reason to have different level of rating to operate two planes of the same type ? Both Fifi and Doc are "Experimental" or I'm wrong ?

Many years ago we got approval from the FAA to operate FIFI without a certificated (Licensed) Flight Engineer. The FAA has determined that Doc will fly with a certificated (Licensed) Flight Engineer. It's as simple as that.

[AFWhite]

And what are the obscure reason to have different level of rating to operate two planes of the same type ? Both Fifi and Doc are "Experimental" or I'm wrong ?

Many years ago we got approval from the FAA to operate FIFI without a certificated (Licensed) Flight Engineer. The FAA has determined that Doc will fly with a certificated (Licensed) Flight Engineer. It's as simple as that.

So...how's does one go about getting rated as a recip FE, is there a course, syllabus, etc? I read 14 CFR.529 and it lays out the requirements but to obtain those, I'm guessing you just have to be around the aircraft and learning it's systems?

I'm a P-3 FE and as FEs go, I'd say in the modern era, we'd be the closest thing to what a traditional FE used to be (and we're going away as the P-8 comes along). By that I mean; full systems knowledge, takeoff performance and weight and balance is on us, the engines and power settings are ours (from start to shut down and in flight shutdowns and restarts), fuel management is ours, electrical system management, environmental and pressurization is ours (I'm guessing FiFi and Doc aren't pressurized though? I used to have a schematic of the B-29 pressurization system and it was remarkably similar to the P-3s) and of course handling in flight emergencies as well as maintenance on the ground. With just TWO current recip FEs out there, the need for a few more may come along...I think old P-3 FEs would be a good base to start with

I guess I should have taken those orders to the P-3s in Dallas and been in closer proximity to the CAF!

Last edited by AFWhite on Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[b29flteng]

And what are the obscure reason to have different level of rating to operate two planes of the same type ? Both Fifi and Doc are "Experimental" or I'm wrong ?

Many years ago we got approval from the FAA to operate FIFI without a certificated (Licensed) Flight Engineer. The FAA has determined that Doc will fly with a certificated (Licensed) Flight Engineer. It's as simple as that.

So...how's does one go about getting rated as a recip FE, is there a course, syllabus, etc? I read 14 CFR.529 and it lays out the requirements but to obtain those, I'm guessing you just have to be around the aircraft and learning it's systems?

I'm a P-3 FE and as FEs go, I'd say in the modern era, we'd be the closest thing to what a traditional FE used to be (and we're going away as the P-8 comes along). By that I mean; full systems knowledge, takeoff performance and weight and balance is on us, the engines and power settings are ours (from start to shut down and in flight shutdowns and restarts), fuel management is ours, electrical system management, environmental and pressurization is ours (I'm guessing FiFi and Doc aren't pressurized though? I used to have a schematic of the B-29 pressurization system and it was remarkably similar to the P-3s) and of course handing in flight emergencies as well as maintenance on the ground. With just TWO current recip FEs out there, the need for a few more may come along...I think old P-3 FEs would be a good base to start with

I guess I should have taken those orders to the P-3s in Dallas and been in closer proximity to the CAF!

You asked the right question.

I'm an FAA Designated Flight Engineer Examiner (Recip and turbo prop). I can do a check ride for you and issue an FAA FE certificate.
1. Get a copy of the ASA Flight Engineer Written Test Guide, study it, and go take the Basic FE Written test and the appropriate written test for Recip, turboprop, or turbojet.
2. Get a 2nd. class FAA Medical
3. Get training in the appropriate aircraft, recip, turboprop, or turbojet.
4. You need at least 5 hours training in the aircraft before applying for a certificate.
5. Fill out an FAA form 8400-3 and get it endorsed by your instructor. http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/medi ... 8400-3.pdf
6. Then contact me.

In FIFI we do our training in a two day ground school with the pilots. Then it takes some OJT with one of our FEs. I'm not sure how it's going to work with Doc.

Both Doc and FIFI are not pressurized, no turbochargers.

PM me if you're interested in getting a turboprop rating in the P-3.