Hollywood bullet stitch
Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:42 am
One other thing that occurred to me about the projectile damage on the
Tri-Motor. Wouldn't there be some damage to adjacent structure of the
aircraft caused by the projectile's passing through...especially cannon
rounds???
As for the "Hollywood bullet stitch"...I've been eyewitness to, or read of
TOO MANY flukes or coincidences in my years to offhandly discount the
possibilities of this purported evidence. But it does give one pause for
thought in lieu of period documentation.
Tri-Motor. Wouldn't there be some damage to adjacent structure of the
aircraft caused by the projectile's passing through...especially cannon
rounds???
As for the "Hollywood bullet stitch"...I've been eyewitness to, or read of
TOO MANY flukes or coincidences in my years to offhandly discount the
possibilities of this purported evidence. But it does give one pause for
thought in lieu of period documentation.
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:09 am
Wolverine wrote:There was something in a Flight Journal a couple years ago about a Trimotor undergoing restoration that had survived the attack.
Aloha Wolverine,
The FLIGHT JOURNAL article included some details based on secondary sources including Bill Larkin's volume cited above.
Thanks for this source!
Cheers,
David
PROGRESS REPORT
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:10 am
PROGRESS REPORT:
Since this thread began, Bill and I have had a lively series of e-mails.
Yes, K-T Flying Service had planes at John Rogers and in the air over Oahu...[my aerial list given in EAST WIND RAIN by Stan Cohen (Missoula, MT: Pictorial Histories Pub; 1991, retitled ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR in 2000) on page 97-98] three of which were shot down (two still missing) and co-owner Robert Tyce, the pilot of the fourth K-T plane, was killed after landing at John Rogers.
However, my witnesses say the Ford Tri-motor was not there.
The slim records show that K-T Flying Service of Chula Vista, Califirnia, opened its Hawaiian branch in 1934. The FAA records in Oklahoma City:
August 7, 1940 sold Tri-motor by Reginald Pattinson and Wayne Parmenter, St. Elmo, Illinois to K-T Flying Service Ltd., Robert Tyce and Charles B. Knox, P. O. Box 3202, Honolulu, Territory of Hawaii.
The CAA list for Feb, 1941 (the last list until 1946) does NOT show the Ford Tri-motor in Hawaii. Bill is to check into K-T Flying Service at Chula Vista.
As civilian aviation was grounded in Dec 1941, the owners moved all operations back to the "States" (mainland). As the war progressed in our favor, the civilian flght restrictions were lifted (date uncertain) and the owners returned.
August 15, 1945 K-T sold the Tri-motor for $3,000 to Clinton Arthur Johnson (Lt. USN), 3427 Northwest 3rd Street, Miami, Florida (c/o General Delivery, Mt. Shasta City, California). NC License issued on 10-23-46, 10-22-47, 1-16-49, 11-7-49, 4-3-52.
January 28, 1952 John sold the Trimotor to William Hadden, Box 208, Orofino, Idaho.
The CAA "1946" (copyrighht 1945) list DOES show K-T (now headquartered back in Hawaii) and owning the Ford Tri-motor.
Bill Larkins knows that the Ford Tri-motor was at Oakland California under new ownership in June 1946 as he took a photo of it at Oakland in Dec 1946.
DID the plane EVER go to Hawaii?
Bill responded early in our e-mails: "If you have had any dealings eith the CAA/FAA Register over the years I am sure you have found lots of cases where the plane is nowhere near the address given for the owner. The plane can be physically in another state for tax purposes, a second home, cheaper rent etc etc"
The progress continues...
Cheers,
David Aiken
Since this thread began, Bill and I have had a lively series of e-mails.
Yes, K-T Flying Service had planes at John Rogers and in the air over Oahu...[my aerial list given in EAST WIND RAIN by Stan Cohen (Missoula, MT: Pictorial Histories Pub; 1991, retitled ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR in 2000) on page 97-98] three of which were shot down (two still missing) and co-owner Robert Tyce, the pilot of the fourth K-T plane, was killed after landing at John Rogers.
However, my witnesses say the Ford Tri-motor was not there.
The slim records show that K-T Flying Service of Chula Vista, Califirnia, opened its Hawaiian branch in 1934. The FAA records in Oklahoma City:
August 7, 1940 sold Tri-motor by Reginald Pattinson and Wayne Parmenter, St. Elmo, Illinois to K-T Flying Service Ltd., Robert Tyce and Charles B. Knox, P. O. Box 3202, Honolulu, Territory of Hawaii.
The CAA list for Feb, 1941 (the last list until 1946) does NOT show the Ford Tri-motor in Hawaii. Bill is to check into K-T Flying Service at Chula Vista.
As civilian aviation was grounded in Dec 1941, the owners moved all operations back to the "States" (mainland). As the war progressed in our favor, the civilian flght restrictions were lifted (date uncertain) and the owners returned.
August 15, 1945 K-T sold the Tri-motor for $3,000 to Clinton Arthur Johnson (Lt. USN), 3427 Northwest 3rd Street, Miami, Florida (c/o General Delivery, Mt. Shasta City, California). NC License issued on 10-23-46, 10-22-47, 1-16-49, 11-7-49, 4-3-52.
January 28, 1952 John sold the Trimotor to William Hadden, Box 208, Orofino, Idaho.
The CAA "1946" (copyrighht 1945) list DOES show K-T (now headquartered back in Hawaii) and owning the Ford Tri-motor.
Bill Larkins knows that the Ford Tri-motor was at Oakland California under new ownership in June 1946 as he took a photo of it at Oakland in Dec 1946.
DID the plane EVER go to Hawaii?
Bill responded early in our e-mails: "If you have had any dealings eith the CAA/FAA Register over the years I am sure you have found lots of cases where the plane is nowhere near the address given for the owner. The plane can be physically in another state for tax purposes, a second home, cheaper rent etc etc"
The progress continues...
Cheers,
David Aiken
Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:42 am
I came across this thru a Google search.
USS Argonne, Report for Pearl Harbor Attack
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AG31/A16-3/A9-8
( 011 ) U.S.S. ARGONNE Rw
Pearl Harbor, T.H.
January 28, 1942
From: Commanding Officer.
To: Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet.
Subject: U.S.S. ARGONNE (AG31) - Enemy attack, December 7, 1941; Detailed report of.
Reference: (a) CinCPAC desp. 102102 of December, 1941.
In compliance with reference (a), the following detailed report is submitted:
Offensive Measures During Raid:
Manned guns as quickly as possible (about 0758). Total rounds fired: 3" .23 Cal., 196; .50 Cal. Machine Gun, 3885.
Damage to Enemy:
One enemy bomber plane was shot down by .50 Cal. machine gun fire from this vessel. (Corporal Alfred Schlag, U.S.M.C.), as bomber came along "1010" dock and turned toward Ford Island.
Own Losses and Damage:
No losses to personnel. Minor damage.
Distinguished Conduct of Personnel:
The entire crew of this vessel performed their duties in accordance with the best traditions of the service, assisting to get wounded from damaged ships, taking bodies from water and assisting with repair facilities to full capacity.
Items of Interest:
During the bombing and torpedo attack a large winged and apparently slow plane was seen by one observer coming from the vicinity of Barber's Point, approaching Pearl Harbor at an altitude of about 4000 feet. This plane, after reaching a point approximately over West Loch, turned and reversed its direction and was not seen again.
At 2116 a .50 caliber machine gun bullet passed through port side of Argonne at frame 70, second deck, killing BROWN, . . Sea.1.c., U.S.S. Utah, and wounding PRICE, W.A., Sea.1c., U.S.S. Utah, in the left arm.
At exactly ten minutes to eight, Sunday morning, December 7, 1941, M.F. POSTON, M.M.2c., U.S. Navy, attached to Argonne, was engaged in flying a light training plane, the property of KT Flying Service, Honolulu, from Halewia to the KT landing field. He was accompanied by another plane piloted by Bob Tice, owner of KT Service. They were passing over the Pali at 6000 feet when attacked by two enemy planes. The attacking planes shot away the propeller and engine from POSTON's plane and he parachuted to safety from an altitude of 4000 feet. The accompanying plane was also shot down. POSTON definitely observed the markings of the attackers, claiming them to be German Messerschmitt 109's with distinguishing Japanese "Red Suns" on their wing tips. POSTON landed beyond the Pali and was taken into custody by two deputized civilian police who returned him to the Honolulu Shore Patrol Station where he was questioned then returned to his ship.
[signed]
F.W. CONNOR.
[CDR] Copy to:
Basefor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: World War II action reports, Modern Military Branch, National Archives and Records Administration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't John Belushi say the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor in Animal House?
Robbie
USS Argonne, Report for Pearl Harbor Attack
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AG31/A16-3/A9-8
( 011 ) U.S.S. ARGONNE Rw
Pearl Harbor, T.H.
January 28, 1942
From: Commanding Officer.
To: Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Pacific Fleet.
Subject: U.S.S. ARGONNE (AG31) - Enemy attack, December 7, 1941; Detailed report of.
Reference: (a) CinCPAC desp. 102102 of December, 1941.
In compliance with reference (a), the following detailed report is submitted:
Offensive Measures During Raid:
Manned guns as quickly as possible (about 0758). Total rounds fired: 3" .23 Cal., 196; .50 Cal. Machine Gun, 3885.
Damage to Enemy:
One enemy bomber plane was shot down by .50 Cal. machine gun fire from this vessel. (Corporal Alfred Schlag, U.S.M.C.), as bomber came along "1010" dock and turned toward Ford Island.
Own Losses and Damage:
No losses to personnel. Minor damage.
Distinguished Conduct of Personnel:
The entire crew of this vessel performed their duties in accordance with the best traditions of the service, assisting to get wounded from damaged ships, taking bodies from water and assisting with repair facilities to full capacity.
Items of Interest:
During the bombing and torpedo attack a large winged and apparently slow plane was seen by one observer coming from the vicinity of Barber's Point, approaching Pearl Harbor at an altitude of about 4000 feet. This plane, after reaching a point approximately over West Loch, turned and reversed its direction and was not seen again.
At 2116 a .50 caliber machine gun bullet passed through port side of Argonne at frame 70, second deck, killing BROWN, . . Sea.1.c., U.S.S. Utah, and wounding PRICE, W.A., Sea.1c., U.S.S. Utah, in the left arm.
At exactly ten minutes to eight, Sunday morning, December 7, 1941, M.F. POSTON, M.M.2c., U.S. Navy, attached to Argonne, was engaged in flying a light training plane, the property of KT Flying Service, Honolulu, from Halewia to the KT landing field. He was accompanied by another plane piloted by Bob Tice, owner of KT Service. They were passing over the Pali at 6000 feet when attacked by two enemy planes. The attacking planes shot away the propeller and engine from POSTON's plane and he parachuted to safety from an altitude of 4000 feet. The accompanying plane was also shot down. POSTON definitely observed the markings of the attackers, claiming them to be German Messerschmitt 109's with distinguishing Japanese "Red Suns" on their wing tips. POSTON landed beyond the Pali and was taken into custody by two deputized civilian police who returned him to the Honolulu Shore Patrol Station where he was questioned then returned to his ship.
[signed]
F.W. CONNOR.
[CDR] Copy to:
Basefor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: World War II action reports, Modern Military Branch, National Archives and Records Administration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't John Belushi say the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor in Animal House?
Robbie
Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:04 pm
Robbie Stuart wrote:At exactly ten minutes to eight, Sunday morning, December 7, 1941, M.F. POSTON, M.M.2c., U.S. Navy, attached to Argonne, .... POSTON landed beyond the Pali and was taken into custody by two deputized civilian police who returned him to the Honolulu Shore Patrol Station where he was questioned then returned to his ship.
[signed]
F.W. CONNOR.
[CDR]
Aloha Robbie,
Poston was a typewriter repairman aboard USS Argonne. He was trying to get ahead to transfer to Naval Aviation...sadly, I was never able to find his address until after his passing.
The lady who saw him walking down the Kalihi Valley road toward Pearl Harbor with his parachute...reported him to the sheriff as a "Japanese parachutist" and detailed his blue dungarees with red insignia. As news trickled through, sailors changed to whites...then that was changed and sailors dipped their white uniforms in tea to stain them brown... then the fact of Japanese deceased flight suits were brown...lots of confusion!
Cheers,
David Aiken