Mid-2015 Pima Restoration Update

[jamesintucson]

I haven't done one of these since the end of last year, so for those of you who don't do Facebook here is what we've been up to.

The B-52D was finally finished. The B-52G is now underway.
B-52D

The VC-137 got a good clean, polish, and touch up paint.
VC-137

Three of the aircraft for our new building have been finished and will be ready to move in as soon as the structure is complete.
T-6
T-6

Yale
Yale

BT-13
BT-13_2

BT-13

It has been a slow year for new arrivals. Only one (non-warbird) so far this year, but it was fairly large.
787_3

And on display
airliners

James

[JohnB]

Too bad Lockheed didn't save the L-1011 prototype for you. It would have looked nice alongside the early Connie.
Scrapped a few years ago in Oklahoma.

I know you can't speak for the museum as a whole, but do you think they'd be open to getting more jetliners...or is space an issue...even for Pima?

[Zac Yates]

It's pretty cool to see those three in the final photo together! A great illustration of airliner development.

Thanks for the photos!

[jamesintucson]

Too bad Lockheed didn't save the L-1011 prototype for you. It would have looked nice alongside the early Connie.
Scrapped a few years ago in Oklahoma.

I know you can't speak for the museum as a whole, but do you think they'd be open to getting more jetliners...or is space an issue...even for Pima?

Our wish list does include several more jetliners. I personally like airliners and have gotten as many on the list as I can justify. Space isn't really a problem for us at this time. The difficulty with airliners is the large amount of residual value in the airframes and especially the engines when the planes' service lives are over. It is hard for us to convince the bean counters that donating a multi-million dollar asset is better than parting it out. It can be done but it takes significant time and effort. In most cases the ones we have came from companies that decided on their own it was important to preserve examples of the type.

James

[JohnB]

I wonder if the museum could piece together a 707 from the ex-airline airframes at D-M (or are they all chopped up by now?). It would mean scavenging parts off retired KC-135Es...which scavenged parts off the retired jetliners in the 80s. On my visits to D-M in the 80s, it seemed the world's population of 707s was there...a lot ex-AA aircraft, some third world airlines, even the LA Dodgers machine.

Off the top of my head, I don't know of a 707 preserved in the U.S. with an airline interior....the Dash 80 isn't an airliner and the VC-137B/Cs are not representative of airliners either. Likewise, I think short fuselage DC-8s are extinct....and again, I don't know of any in museums.

Fed EX was giving away 727s awhile back...probably because the non-hush kitted examples have zero resale and little parts value.
D-M was holding the first airline (United) 727 for a long time (the prototype is in Seattle)..is it still there or did they move it to D.C.?

[jamesintucson]

I wonder if the museum could piece together a 707 from the ex-airline airframes at D-M (or are they all chopped up by now?). It would mean scavenging parts off retired KC-135Es...which scavenged parts off the retired jetliners in the 80s. On my visits to D-M in the 80s, it seemed the world's population of 707s was there...a lot ex-AA aircraft, some third world airlines, even the LA Dodgers machine.

Off the top of my head, I don't know of a 707 preserved in the U.S. with an airline interior....the Dash 80 isn't an airliner and the VC-137B/Cs are not representative of airliners either. Likewise, I think short fuselage DC-8s are extinct....and again, I don't know of any in museums.

Fed EX was giving away 727s awhile back...probably because the non-hush kitted examples have zero resale and little parts value.
D-M was holding the first airline (United) 727 for a long time (the prototype is in Seattle)..is it still there or did they move it to D.C.?

The 707s are pretty much all gone. There may be one or two partial hulks way back in the back of AMARG but nowhere near enough to make an airframe. We didn't go after one of the FedEx 727s because NASM donated the United 727 at AMARG to us at about that same time. It is sitting in the museum storage area waiting its turn in restoration.

Boeing 727

James

[M-62A]

Interesting, the BT-13A exhibit carries the "BL" codes of No.2 British Flying Training School at Lancaster, CA. "353" is probably adopted from the USAAF serial number. I seem to recall the BT's at Lancaster were marked "BL-100" and up and the ATs marked "BL-200" and up.
Tony Broadhurst

[sandiego89]

Likewise, I think short fuselage DC-8s are extinct....

James- thanks for the update- great stuff! The BUFF "D" looks great- looking forward to the G.

John, the DC-8 on a stick at the Los Angeles Museum of Science and Indsutry is a short bodied 52 series. A few other short bodies on the stored and diplay list here: http://www.aviation-friends-cologne.de/ ... sting.html

IIRC anything with a 5x series or below should be a short bodied DC-8. I note a few "stored" in places like Congo, but that may be a polite term.

Recent google maps show the two in Congo, and a decidely sad looking DC-8 dump (with one short hull) in Brasil. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Manau ... 0c4985e2dc

So not quite extinct

[JohnB]

John, the DC-8 on a stick at the Los Angeles Museum of Science and Indsutry is a short bodied 52 series. A few other short bodies on the stored and display list here: http://www.aviation-friends-cologne.de/ ... sting.html

So not quite extinct

Thanks for the link to the listing and its attached 707 list.
No, not quite extinct, but as I read it, only one passenger DC-8 in a museum...at least in North America.
Like the 707, most out there are now cargo or special use/military aircraft.

Early jetliners are a prime example of an aircraft being so ubiquitous that they're ignored until there are just a handful left.
Given their role in opening up the world to international travel/relations, it's a shame more aren't left.

It's all well and good to preserve the 367-80 and USAF VIP 137s, but a pax -configured 707 or DC-8 should really be displayed in one of the major national collections.

[jamesintucson]

Interesting, the BT-13A exhibit carries the "BL" codes of No.2 British Flying Training School at Lancaster, CA. "353" is probably adopted from the USAAF serial number. I seem to recall the BT's at Lancaster were marked "BL-100" and up and the ATs marked "BL-200" and up.
Tony Broadhurst

You are correct on the origin of the 353 number. I wasn't able to confirm what number the plane carried or the exact number sequence in use when it was at Lancaster so we went with using the last three of the serial number.

James

[K5DH]

Isn't Elvis Presley's "Lisa Marie" jet available? I thought the management of Graceland wanted to get rid of the airplanes and do something else with that real estate (like a theme park or something). That's an airplane that probably deserves preservation somewhere.

[Old SAR pilot]

Hmmm...If John Travolta ever decides to retire his 707, well.....

[Rob W]

They're already putting 787s in museums? Interesting...

[jamesintucson]

They're already putting 787s in museums? Interesting...

It is the number 2 prototype. Because of design changes that had to be incorporated into it after they were built the first three ended up over weight and couldn't be sold commercially. So instead of cutting them up Boeing donated them to museums. No. 1 went to Japan, No. 2 came here, and No. 3 went to Museum of Flight in Seattle.

James

[Rob W]

jamesintuscon,

Thanks for the information!

Cheers,
Rob