Pearl Harbor Experts - Did This Happen?

[Badman]

I found a neat book recently titled "the Flying Guns" by US Navy Lt Dickenson that was published in 1942. In it, he describes flying SBDs just before Pearl Harbor, at Pearl Harbor, and through the Battle of Midway. Since he wrote the book immediately following the actual events I doubt there were any details he lost or misplaced due to the passage of time from the events he write about.

On December 7 he wrote he was returning to Ford Island from the USS Enterprise during the attack. He said he was flying at 1500 feet toward Barbers Point and saw a large 4-engine Japanese patrol plane (sea plane?) flying over Pearl Harbor at approximately 9,000 feet. He said he and his wingman tried to climb to intercept it but were not successful as it flew into some smoke and they lost it.

I'm not an expert on Pearl Harbor, but I don't recall hearing about any Japanese sea planes or any 4-engine Japanese aircraft being present. Did this really happen - were there such Japanese aircraft present during the attack? Or maybe, he mistook one of the B-17s for a Japanese aircraft?

I'm sure someone on this site has the answer.

[jamesintucson]

As far as I've ever seen the only Japanese aerial reconnaissance of Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7 was done by float planes from the cruisers and battleships sailing with the carriers. The Japanese did attempt an ultimately unsuccessful attack on Pearl using two Emily patrol planes in May 42. He probably saw one of the B-17s.

James

[Cubs]

I saw this on the pacificaviationmuseum.org website:
When the Japanese attacked on December 7, one Pan Am Clipper was about an hour away from landing in the harbor. Fortunately, it was warned and was able to divert to Hilo. - See more at: http://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org/pe ... IJFr2.dpuf

A Boeing 314 and an "Emily" could look similar from a distance.

[Warbird Kid]

Not to hijack this thread but I have a Pearl Harbor related question…

Does anyone know the specific type and color of Buick, Welsh and Taylor drove to Haleiwa Airfield?

[Marauderman26]

Possibly mixing two different attack stories?

http://pacific-islander.blogspot.com/20 ... arbor.html

[zorro9]

M-26:

Good day!

Interesting article about the Japanese 2nd attack on Pearl harbor. For that era the "Emily" was an impressive flying boat!

p.s I'll look deep in my archives not for the pic of the 4 engine aircraft but a b/w taking by one of the crews of an unarmed B-17 of a Japanese Zero approaching Oahu on Dec 7, 1941. I think there is a version of the Japanese pilot of this event also. Any more details plz post. Tks in advance.

[WacoOne]

I read that book also. It was interesting to read something written so early in the war. I think that pilot was confused by something. Could an Emily have flown all the way to Pearl and back without refueling? (I know, it might could have refueled by submarine.) IIRC, there were other interesting incidences in the book.

Bill

[Badman]

Possibly mixing two different attack stories?

http://pacific-islander.blogspot.com/20 ... arbor.html

I don't think this is the case - Lt. Dickinson was pretty specific on the date and time + I didn't read anything in your link about any SBDs from the USS Enterprise (or anywhere else) giving chase to either of the Emilys.

I was able to find a second source of info on Lt. Dickinson from USS Enterprise records where his mission that day was also described, but the USS Enterprise records DID NOT include anything about the large 4-engine Japanese aircraft that he wrote about in his book. So, maybe it was one of the B-17s he saw - didn't the US markings at that time have the red ball in the center of the star? Maybe this is just one more example of why the red ball was eliminated not long afterwards?

Thanx for the info and link - I didn't know about the Emily attack and that they actually dropped bombs in and around Pearl Harbor!

[Badman]

I read that book also. It was interesting to read something written so early in the war. I think that pilot was confused by something. Could an Emily have flown all the way to Pearl and back without refueling? (I know, it might could have refueled by submarine.) IIRC, there were other interesting incidences in the book.

Bill

While not really warbird related, I found Lt. Dickinson's description of his post shoot down events about the Japanese and/or Japanese sympathizers he ran into while making his way on foot and by car to Ford Island on December 7, 1941 very interesting. It's stuff like this that refutes the latter day revisionist history about how we had absolutely no reason to inter the Japanese Americans other than us being a bunch of racists. I think this shows there was not only real concern, but there was actually a real threat there and remember, we were at war around the world, getting our butts kicked everywhere, and really believing we were fighting for survival. For those that look, I think you'll find the threat posed by Japanese operatives, Japanese sympathizers, and the Yakuza in Hawaii, the western US, and the Panama Canal area were the driving force behind our Country's later actions relating to internment.

[p51]

The Japanese did attempt an ultimately unsuccessful attack on Pearl using two Emily patrol planes in May 42.

Wow, you really do learn something new every day. I'd never known that!

[JohnB]

In all the accounts I've read, I've never heard about the seaplanes on Dec. 7.

One thing I did recently come across despite having read quite a bit on he attack.
A Japanese aircraft crash-landed on a remote Hawaiian island and the pilot was aided by a Japanese farm worker.
The two held hostages and caused some mayhem before ending badly for both.
There may have been a killing or two...I can't recall.

But it did contradict the old claim that Japanese-Americans never aided Japan during the conflict.
(I believe that statement was made to protest FDR's internment policies...which really are indefensible).

[Clifford Bossie]

I think it is a simple case of misidentification.

Operation K was not carried out until March, 1942: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_K

Another interesting tid bit is that the Japanese lost the I-70 during the "Hawaiian Operation" when it was sunk by planes from the Enterprise on 10 Dec, 1941. Sunk by Lt. Clarence E. Dickinson.

[Badman]

I think it is a simple case of misidentification.

Operation K was not carried out until March, 1942: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_K

Another interesting tid bit is that the Japanese lost the I-70 during the "Hawaiian Operation" when it was sunk by planes from the Enterprise on 10 Dec, 1941. Sunk by Lt. Clarence E. Dickinson.

For me, the whole book is full of a lot of very interesting info. written by a guy who was there right after he was there (unlike some biographies written decades later). As I recall, in the book Dickinson said he found the I-70 about 6 hours after another SBD found and bombed it, but reported it was not sunk. Dickinson said he thought because the I-70 never attempted to submerge (and they saw him coming approx. 6-8 minutes before he made his bomb run) he suspected the prior SBD attack had damaged the sub so it couldn't dive. I think Dickinson also said in the book that USS Enterprise SBDs had sunk approx. 4-5 Japanese subs in the week after Pearl Harbor.

He also describes another sub sinking incident when they were steaming toward the Marshall Islands in early 1942 when early in the morning (he was on deck preparing to fly) a Japanese sub surfaced immediately astern of the USS Enterprise! Dickinson said the destroyer following the Enterprise attempted to ram the sub, but missed (because the sub was so close and the destroyer couldn't turn fast/sharp enough) and instead dropped several depth charges on it and sunk it.

I've got quite a few books in my library and in my opinion this one certainly is one of the better biographies I've read. If you can find a copy I highly recommend it.

[WacoOne]

Getting back to the 'patrol bomber' sighting, Dickenson states in the book that the plane was 10 or 12 miles away from him and 4500 ft higher. Also, if there had been an Emily involved in an operation this significant it surely would be in the Japanese war records which apparently it isn't considering how much the records have been researched since the war. I think he could have seen a B-17.

I, too, treasure this book as it relates so many things not covered in the many books I've read about the Pacific war.

Bill