Warbird Information Exchange

Well if there's any consolation for those of us who are sticklers for preserving history, authenticity nut jobs, paint scheme complainers and rivet counters, it's that I'm convinced we're hanging out on the right website for that nonsense aren't we? ...

You should see the flame throwers on model airplane and classic car websites talk about stuff like this. Makes all of us around here look like choir boys playing hopscotch.

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Zero Surprise!!...

IIRC, Pink Lady is in 351st BG livery.

I'm not arguing against the markings being 8AF-centric, but the majority of the markings are 91st or 381st BG birds, and Aluminum Overcast in 398th livery was part of the same wing with 91st / 381st. It would be nice for some other groups to get recognition...95th BG, first over Berlin, for instance.

*slaps self in head* 351st, not 384th... I am so ashamed. (goes off to sulk in corner)

Excellent points in your post, TriangleP, and I completely agree with your thoughts.

Regards,

Lynn

I'll probably catch h*ll for this, but I can't help but post these remarks from another forum. I won't post the forum it came from, who the person is or who it was directed to. I haven't a clue who posted it anyway, but I thought it interesting the thoughts of others on this particular subject. Disclaimer: Nothing against who ever posted it and me posting it here has nothing to do with who it was directed to. It's just another interesting take on the subject and one I haven't given much thought to, even though it has merit as well. Could be toned down a bit though as the personal snipes aren't really necessary IMO

Actually this could easily be directed towards me

"so let's be blunt, if the 'history' of this particular aircraft is really as important as you claim,
should it not be painted in one of the schemes it wore for a far longer period than its 'glorious war service'?

Sorry, but it's become very clear you have an overly romanticized and surprisingly narrow definition of 'history'. This whole notion that long term surviving airframes are solely defined by briefly worn warpaint effectively dismisses everything, and everyone, who came after, all of the folk who kept the machine alive and who's actions preserved it are shoved into a box of irrelevancy. That's a pretty sh*tty, and dishonorable, attitude my friend.

At the end of the day its just a machine and the owner can do whatever the h*ll he wants,
posturing, whinging and expressing high dudgeon on web forums or Facebook is pissing
in the wind."

"Chuckie" used to be used as a electronic research aircraft and sprayer?

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Zero Surprise!!...

Gosh, there are so many. Whole swaths of the collections of Allen, Collings, Weeks, Lewis (except for the awful nose art on a few of them), Friedkin, Yagen, Fagen, and many individual owners are almost impeccable. And to be fair, whenever a new one appears, it gets a loud round of applause on this forum. Nobody could say that all we do is criticize.

August

Mark, it was wise of you not to post the forum or identity of whoever uttered that quote. What a silly statement he made.

It's a little like saying we shouldn't pay tribute to a veteran for his six months of combat service, but rather for the following 40 years he spent as an insurance broker. Some parts of your past are more significant than others, regardless of duration! And so it is with historic artifacts.

And anyone who still repeats the "it's his property to do what he wants with" thing by this time is surely missing the point.

August

Thx August, other than the "I'm wise" part, as that puts too much pressure on me I'll give you a big +2 on your last two posts.
I wasn't going to state my true feelings on the fellows post for fear of starting a serious flame war ..... but I couldn't agree with you more.

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Zero Surprise!!...

Hey, I appreciate the kind words. Thanks!!

For those that are interested, I do have 2-3 projects in progress and pending approval for various aircraft for 2015.

Gary V. doesn't use airbrush at all, it's all brush painted, as is my art. He's just that good a painter that it looks to have airbrushed qualities from afar.

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Sure, Charles Lindbergh flew the plane... but Tom Rutledge built the engine!

Visit Django Studios online or Facebook!

Yah I have to admit this thread has been quite interesting and worth the effort. Thanks to all of you who have taken some time to read and participate. ALL your opinions matter and are warranted, no matter how you may feel. It's been quite a respectful ride and a learning experience. Thx much all.

Just a few more thoughts and I'll shut up,

There's a very realistic question of "how long should we remember" our veterans. The only realistic answer should be "as long as it takes".
And so how long is that?
As long as it takes for most of us to quit taking out freedom for granted. Of which should be never.

I read this today and it's quite powerful regarding the sacrifices everyone endured during and after the war. These type of things give me the drive to keep up the fight to never forget any of them.

“I married a kind, affectionate young man. I did not marry a soldier. The next day he got his draft papers. Four weeks later he was gone. Three years later the Air Force sent home a basket case. A bundle of nerves. He has been fighting the war ever since. I am ready for the war to end. I want my kind, caring, affectionate husband back.”

I know personally I've been beating this horse to death, but I can't help to not feel angry towards an owner doing as he pleases with his property, but rather disappointed that he doesn't see things the way many of us do. Are we right and/or justified in feeling disappointed by the way he chose to paint his airplane? Probably not, but then again we do have a right to feel the way we do just as much as he has a right to make the decisions he does. Is this owner a bad guy for maybe not viewing the warbird world in terms of it's history perhaps the way some of us do? Absolutely not! and that's just speculation on my part anyway. He's one of the very best in the business and should absolutely be commended for all he has done to preserve these old airplanes. I can't imagine what, if anything, the veterans thought when seeing this new scheme. Did they scratch their heads thinking there's nothing there to relate to? or could they simply not tell the difference between what they were seeing today and 70 years ago. There's no secret some of us are far too critical for our own good, but I for one have spent a tremendous amount of time researching the Second World War, (predominately aviation wise) and I personally have a very strong opinion about how I would like the veterans to be remember. Unfortunately I have no control over how others remember veterans and have no right to force my opinions on anyone regarding the matter.

If there's one thing I'm beginning to teach myself, it's that just because I feel the need to remember veterans a certain way, doesn't mean others should need to remember them the same way. Mr. Erickson has spent more time, effort, resources and passion towards remembering our veterans than I could ever do in my lifetime. How could or should I ever hold anything against him. I don't, but I can't get around the very real thought of a lost opportunity here. It's difficult to hold a grudge or to be too disappointed in someone who has, and is, doing so much for the warbird community and for our veterans.

Contrary to everything I have posted stating my disappointment towards another persons paint scheme on his airplane and whether my posts are justified, rational or warranted. My views are mine and mine only and really only should matter to me. I should only know better than to keep them to myself.

The man who owns this B-17 is a class act all the way and the more I think about the generosity of the man the less I think about my selfish thoughts of disappointment towards some artwork and paint. He's doing a great job and has much to be proud of. I know he doesn't need to care what I think but I know I'm proud of him too.

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Zero Surprise!!...

Are there any pictures of the whole aircraft?

Page three has as close to a whole shot as has been posted.

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Zero Surprise!!...

Mark, I'm with you 100%. I don't think there is an expiration date on valor. We will be the last generation to have personal interactions with our Greatest Generation. To me, our generation's responsibility is to preserve the memories and the stories and to pass them along.

Likewise, the machines have their own stories to tell, and when these machines operate, they come alive. They bring sights, sounds and even smells to people just to give them an idea of what it was like. I like calling it "Hands On History". You can read a pile of books (which is definitely a good thing), but there's something to be said about "History you can touch".

Some may regard their warbirds as playtoys to do with as they please. I do believe, though, that warbird operators do have a greater responsibility to being faithful to the history which allows us the freedom to be able to operate these planes as we please.

WOW, quite a bit of conversation on the naming of the Madras Maiden.

Well, I'm the fella that came up with the name and developed & choose the nose art.

If you have any questions, please feel free to direct them to me.

- Lyle Jansma

Greetings Lyle, thanks for showing up. Although I'm sure others may want to take you up on your offer to ask you questions. I'd rather you just take the floor and share any thoughts you have. I'm sure you had many reasons for your decisions and if you care to discuss them I know I'd be interested to hear them.

Thx in advance

Mark

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Zero Surprise!!...

OK, I'll keep it short and simple.

1) The B-17 now honors the community of Madras, Oregon where a primary B-17 training base was located at during WWII.
2) The concept of the Madras Maiden was sparked by an actual woman who lives in Madras and is a dedicated air show volunteer.
3) The concept that I portrayed during the Maiden's unveiling was the notion that many lasting friendships and memories were created
between the training air crews and local communities such as Madras and hundreds of other similar towns/air bases across the US
during WWII.
4) The Madras Maiden WILL honor the entire memory of the Madras Army Airfield and the veterans of Jefferson County, Oregon, not
just that of a single 10 man B-17 crew. She will tell the story of the Madras AAF where ever she flies to on tour.
5) The likeness of the Madras Maiden was created from an image provided by Scott Slocum. Hope Beel is a talented model from Dallas, Texas
who is one of Scott Slocum's Bombshell girls featured in his MyBombshells calendar. So, the Madras Maiden is still representing Texas in
relatively prominent way. Gary Velasco hand painted ALL of the artwork over 3 days in June using traditional WWII techniques and paint.
6) 44-8543 (now the Madras Maiden) never saw action overseas and thus is not a war veteran and was reportedly give the name "Weather Pig" while
stationed at Wright-Patterson AFB. IMHO, her current name does more to honor a larger group of people than any of her past names.
7) Finally, Mr. Erickson has built a 70 thousand sq ft hangar that will house 25 vintage WWII aircraft. It is safe to say that he has done more to
preserve aviation history than most posting here. In regards to the JE on the side of the Madras Maiden, that was done by Mr. Erickson's
grandson to honor the man who raised him, taught him how to fly, and has entrusted the legacy of the Erickson Aircraft Collection to his care,

Give the facts stated above, if anyone wishes to still find fault with my decision, so be it. The fine people of Madras, Oregon and the Erickson
Aircraft Collection are happy with my decision and that's all that really matters to me.

PS - I asked Brad Pilgrim what he thought a year ago and he approved of the name change so, that's all I really needed to hear!