A trend towards more non-authentic schemes? ...

[JFS61]

As I've said here before, that if you are going to do cheesecake style nose art, at least do it authentic to the period. There is absolutely nothing authentic about nose art featuring girls that have painfully obvious breast implants. Either choose models that don't have them, or have the artist modify their artwork to remove the telltale hard-edged, bolted-on circular "fish bowl" look so many augmented women (such as this model) have today.

As has been said before, it's their airplane and they can do what they want, but that doesn't negate the fact that the artwork is still an epic fail of massive proportions in all departments.

[mustanglover]

As I've said here before, that if you are going to do cheesecake style nose art, at least do it authentic to the period. There is absolutely nothing authentic about nose art featuring girls that have painfully obvious breast implants. Either choose models that don't have them, or have the artist modify their artwork to remove the telltale hard-edged, bolted-on circular "fish bowl" look so many augmented women (such as this model) have today.

As has been said before, it's their airplane and they can do what they want, but that doesn't negate the fact that the artwork is still an epic fail of massive proportions in all departments.

Seriously????

Have you ever looked at galleries of authentic WWII nose art?

[mustanglover]

I've been spending a little time this morning researching real vintage WW2 bomber nose art to try to give "Madras Maiden" the benefit of the doubt, but unfortunately it seems Silicon Breasts as we know them today didn't even exist back in the 40's.

Seriously, I'm seeing all kinds of backlash on other sites about this 'paint job' with opinions flying in all directions, with some opinions tame and respectful and some outright hostile. I believe strongly that we all have a right to express our opinions and perhaps displeasure if we so choose without being reminded it's not our property or to pay for another paint job ourselves if we disapprove so much.

We've been down this road several times on WIX alone about what our opinions are, and should or shouldn't be, concerning other peoples decisions with their own property. Do we as the ones who do not own have the right to express our opinions and criticisms towards those that do own? Indeed we do, but at the same time our level of credibility is judged by our level of criticism and many times our level of class is judged the same way.

I'm not a fan of this owners decision for a paint scheme on his own property. I join the ranks of several others who feel the same way, but even though I disapprove, of which is my right, I respect this persons decision to do as he wishes with his property, of which is his right. I will still look forward to seeing his airplane continue to fly and be generously displayed for all of us to enjoy of which is not our right to expect of this owner but otherwise his generosity towards us.

I'm grateful this man gives us this gift to publicly enjoy. ... Even if I'm not a fan of its artwork.

Really? https://www.google.com/search?q=wwii+nose+art&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=VEn6U932O4fP8AHb3oCYBw&sqi=2&ved=0CB0QsAQ&biw=1536&bih=758#imgdii=_

They may not have been silicon, but they were very over drawn by the authentic artists........wow, you guys are amazing!

[Dave Downs]

I'm not a fan of modern style nose art either, in fact, I thought I was pretty much alone in that category. As for the appropriateness (is that a real word) of the art, look through the nose art in the link above (some are modern) one of the original WWII examples that caught my eye is 'FULL BOOST' - never seen that one before!!!

Having said that, my all-time favorite for 'over-the-top' is this Thud from Viet Nam:

[Mark Allen M]

Really? https://www.google.com/search?q=wwii+no ... 8#imgdii=_

They may not have been silicon, but they were very over drawn by the authentic artists........wow, you guys are amazing!

Yah! Really! There's much more to it than what you posted. A little more research wouldn't hurt you.

Last edited by Mark Allen M on Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Snake45]

I'm not a fan of modern style nose art either, in fact, I thought I was pretty much alone in that category. As for the appropriateness (is that a real word) of the art, look through the nose art in the link above (some are modern) one of the original WWII examples that caught my eye is 'FULL BOOST' - never seen that one before!!!

Having said that, my all-time favorite for 'over-the-top' is this Thud from Viet Nam:

I think I have decals for that in 1/48 scale. In fact, I believe the sheet includes both "real" and "family friendly" versions of the art.

[Dave Downs]

Yah! Really! There's much more to it than what you posted. A little more research wouldn't hurt you.

From what I know it did not last too long in theater but when the aircraft was returned to the states to be cleaned-up for a 'gate guard' the nose art was re-painted (that is the picture I posted) but only lasted a short while before it was again removed.

[Snake45]

Yah! Really! There's much more to it than what you posted. A little more research wouldn't hurt you.

From what I know it did not last too long in theater but when the aircraft was returned to the states to be cleaned-up for a 'gate guard' the nose art was re-painted (that is the picture I posted) but only lasted a short while before it was again removed.

I thought Mark was talking about the refueling aspect of the endeavor.

[Dave Downs]

Ooohhhh ... Yeah, I know where the re-fueling probe goes.....

[seabee1526]

Yankees Air's "GD" is correct correct?

I'd like to put Yankee Lady as my #1 nose art.

1. Yankee Lady
2. Fuddy Duddy
3. 909
4. Thunderbird
5. Aluminum Overcast
6. Texas Raiders
7. Memphis Belle
8. Sentimental Journey
9. Madras Maiden

[Mark Allen M]

Yah! Really! There's much more to it than what you posted. A little more research wouldn't hurt you.

From what I know it did not last too long in theater but when the aircraft was returned to the states to be cleaned-up for a 'gate guard' the nose art was re-painted (that is the picture I posted) but only lasted a short while before it was again removed.

I thought Mark was talking about the refueling aspect of the endeavor.

No I wasn't referring to Dave's post, I was referring to mustanglovers "Really?" Post. To compare Madras Maiden's artwork with what was created during WW2 is simply not the same. It doesn't take too long for anyone interested or educated in this particular history or that has a clue as to what those veterans sacrificed to figure it out. No matter what anyone wants to think, MM's artwork and paint scheme was not created to honor WW2 veterans and if it was it was a poor attempt IMO.

But perhaps the owner never really had the airplanes artwork and scheme intended to be the focal point of rememberance towards veterans, perhaps the very nature of his ownership, public display and keeping it flying is his primary goal to honor the veterans, families and us enthusiasts. If that's the case wonderful for him and a job very well done.

Again (over and over) it's the owners airplane to do as he wishes with it and more power to him. I respect and commend him for his generosity to the City of Madras and us folks who enjoy these old airplanes. I just wish he would have done things a little differently regarding the choice of artwork and scheme.

But you know who gives a sh*t what I think? ... That's right! ... No one, especially the owner of Madras Maiden. As he shouldn't.

And that's fine with me

Last edited by Mark Allen M on Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[seabee1526]

I feel that these pieces of history are just as much a museum as any brick and mortar building and as such they have the responsibility to tell the truth. If you take on the task of a WWII 4 engine bomber you also take on the burden of accuracy.

Unenforceable yes...but maybe the idea will stick in the minds of folks

[greatgonzo]

I feel that these pieces of history are just as much a museum as any brick and mortar building and as such they have the responsibility to tell the truth. If you take on the task of a WWII 4 engine bomber you also take on the burden of accuracy.

Unenforceable yes...but maybe the idea will stick in the minds of folks

This story is repeated every time a new item of our surroundings joins the ever growing circle of human culture legacy. It has started not so far ago with history becoming a kind of knowledge or science not even a couple of centuries ago. The first try to cope with the problem was probably Athens Card in 1931. It produced the basics to cope with old and worthy staff. Architecture was the subject, but the problems and irregularities come back in the same shape every time a new area becomes old and worthy. And in the end basics look very similar with small differences specific to the subject, after going through the same process of ignorance, denial , protest and slow accommodation. And then there are all those very important exceptions still quite the same. Often really important, sometimes not even close to being worth any care.
Warbirds are on the slow accommodation path now. Most statements here go for painting the craft more authentic with period style art. Putting your wife's name on an aircraft is not less authentic then painting a girl and markings known from the photographs of a long non existing plane. The only available authenticity , would be using the markings of that very piece from it's past. And that only because of the specificity of technical item and the value of showing it working as designed. With grounded presentations we surely will see a trend to show things as they were found. Here I step on the antique restoring ground, so I will go no farther for a moment. Yet it will happen. It did everywhere so far.
In the end painting the Madras Maiden against IIWW style girl is to be valued considering intentions only. There is no automatic honouring or lack of honouring anybody either way. We can judge the intentions as we usually do, but I see no sense in waving the historical authenticity banner since I do not like it this way has been all there is really.

[mustanglover]

I had only commented on 2 posts that talked about the boobs on the MM nose art not being correct because they could be unnatural and made of silicon.

So I simply posted a link to a Google search of WWII nose art showing exactly that.........unnatural boobs on WWII nose art and I am told to do more research?

That's pretty funny guys...........maybe JE will now understand you guys and sell the B-17 because WIX does not approve of how he wants to portray and display HIS airplane.

Maybe it is time for WIX to re-think its place in history..........oh wait, WIX really has no place in history unlike what the very existence of JE's B-17 does.

Let the man do what he pleases with his own toys..........remember that we will all be watching when you get your toys.

[StangStung]

I had only commented on 2 posts that talked about the boobs on the MM nose art not being correct because they could be unnatural and made of silicon.

So I simply posted a link to a Google search of WWII nose art showing exactly that.........unnatural boobs on WWII nose art and I am told to do more research?

That's pretty funny guys...........maybe JE will now understand you guys and sell the B-17 because WIX does not approve of how he wants to portray and display HIS airplane.

Maybe it is time for WIX to re-think its place in history..........oh wait, WIX really has no place in history unlike what the very existence of JE's B-17 does.

Let the man do what he pleases with his own toys..........remember that we will all be watching when you get your toys.

It is his. And to him, it's clearly an expensive toy.

But in reality, it's an historical artifact, worthy of some respect. Not to mention respect to those who cared and maintained her for so much of its history. As Chuckie, she was a memorial to the "can-do" efforts of warbirding supporters across the decades.

Would you be so glib if the NMUSAF painted the Memphis Belle aluminum and put the museum curators's initials on it?

Granted, Chuckie isn't the Belle, but still, it had its place as a unique B-17 and a unique aircraft in warbirding's history.