A trend towards more non-authentic schemes? ...

[Courier Sportster]

military paint jobs are beginning to bore me. especially with the P-51. the exec paint of the 60's is beginning to absolutely thrill me. anyone taking a civilian warbird paintjob back to authentic originality is, I think, going in the wrong direction. that is well-enough covered, don't we think? now, back to the current nose art-- it's mostly all too professionally slick. but the talent today, and modern tools, are in abundance. so that's which way the wind is gonna blow. but I do like a nice clean design that really pops, time irregardless. I think that 'fritz the fox' from here could knock out something striking, but it would look new. it's very hard to un-learn, and turn the clock back to period-correctness. I think, though, when you see those old pics of bomber nose after bomber nose, you see the same thing--terrific greatness, mixed with some pretty horrid art. maybe just ditch the airbrush, eh? nobody's doing decals I hope! when I see computer cut vinyl lettering on warbirds I puke! final thought--"old 927" was the one that made me cringe. someone here submitted a very nice diamond lil suggestion, better than what's on there now. sorry to be so long winded, people!

[C VEICH]

On a separate note Mr. Snake, have or has any of your airplane model building folks ever built civilian scheme models? I would think that would be a fun build.

Just for fun. (And racing!)

[Firebird]

Has an owner really painted their B-17 with that.........


Just proves money can't buy taste.

[kalamazookid]

My personal feelings are that airbrushed nose art looks like crap. I don't begrudge anyone their own personal tastes, but it doesn't do it for me. It doesn't look period in any way, and the quality is usually not very good in terms of detail. Every single Tigercat with nose art comes to mind. It just sticks out like a sore thumb.

I don't have a problem with made-up nose art done in a period style. The nose art on "Ol' 927" before it was changed back to Diamond Lil' comes to mind, as does "Yankee Lady." Simple, tasteful, and plausible for the era. I don't know why anyone would use a modern model when there are so many great pin-ups to pick from that would make the artwork at least somewhat historical/plausible. I don't see what the problem with a warbird owner putting his wife's name on the plane is. I think that using the correct font or lettering style for the particular unit the rest of the paint scheme represents, along with a period pin-up, would be quite tasteful actually.

The gloss/semi-gloss/flat debate doesn't matter to me one bit. I'm all for something that's easy for the owner to maintain. I'd rather the owner/operator's money be poured into keeping the aircraft airworthy and shared with the public, instead of worrying about whether the paint scheme will wear out.

Edit: Also wanted to say that I think sometimes a particular airframe's civilian history is a more compelling history than a limited military service. Some of the Air Racers, or an airframe owned by a famous warbird pilot, or an aircraft painted in a distinctive civilian scheme for a long period, are sometimes better than a run-of-the-mill military scheme.

[Mark Allen M]

Yah! Just not 'getting' this decision. Oh well! Still a neat airplane. There's an un-veiling video that goes along with this scene as well. Looked like lots of folks showed up to applaud the results. Photo from the museums Facebook page.

[CAPFlyer]

1) It should be noted that Gary doesn't use much airbrush. 95% of that nose art is done the old fashioned way, although stencils are used to guide the large shapes.

2) The decision for the name change was covered in detail here, on the WIX Facebook, and elsewhere - the change is to thank the people of Madras, OR, for allowing Erickson to move their operation and museum there (and some financial assistance as well in that venture).

3) We are not the audience they're targeting anyway, so we don't matter.

[Kyleb]

3) We are not the audience they're targeting anyway, so we don't matter.

We're already a "Shack", target wise, so they don't have to worry about us too much.

That said, anyone who makes the investment to own/operate a B-17 is good people in my book.

[JimH]

IMO...these airplanes were built for one purpose...and it's not owner ego. There are sooo many great stories that can be told with originality and accurate paint schemes. How many people would know who Charles McCorkle was if not for Betty Jane flying around? and so on and so forth?..There are literally hundreds of B-17 paint jobs to replicate and most have veterans that are still around to tell their story. I can't begin to tell all the 909 and Witchcraft stories I've heard from personal experiences of the original crews. Seeing Bob DeKerf paint on the Witchcraft noseart, or meeting Joe Abernathy who was on the 100th mission of WC, or Laslow, or Betcher, or Basil...the stories go on. Madras Maiden? Aluminum Overcast? What does that say? who can relate to that? IF you operate a (flying)museum you should feel at least some bit of responsibility to tell an accurate story...in addition to operating an historic airframe. Sad, its a horrible waste of a resource... its great they fly and are maintained but in the end they will probably end up locked up in a hangar never to fly again...like the Pond Collection...or the War Eagles collection. ok rant over...

Jim

[Dan Johnson II]

Just out of curiosity. I'm trying to remember if there is any flying B17 out there with a completely accurate WW2 paint job including nose art?

I know there are some closer to the truth than others, but I can't think of one flying that does replicate a wartime 17 completely.

[oz rb fan]

I assume you mean civvie-painted warbirds, and not airliners and Cessnas and things like that.

That would be correct as Airliners and Cessna's don't count around here

will these do


the red stock mustang is now flying in it's original RAAF scheme...the other's need no introduction

[Chris Brame]

On a separate note Mr. Snake, have or has any of your airplane model building folks ever built civilian scheme models? I would think that would be a fun build.

I did, about 35 years ago; a fictitious 1/48 B-17 freighter:


And Kittyhawk N1223N:

(The photo in Air Classics didn't show the location of the tail number, so I guessed wrong - should be on the fin.)

[AFWhite]

Madras Maiden? Aluminum Overcast? What does that say? who can relate to that?
Jim

Madras, Oregon was home to an AAF base where B-17 crews trained up prior to heading on over to Europe. Probably a lot of former crew members kicking around to who the name "Madras" will resonate with.

[Chappie]

For me personally, I would like to see any aircraft restored to a certain period, to look exactly like it was "transported in time" to today.

Not overly dolled-up, not too polished, paint not too shiny, stenciling taped rather than stenciled, etc, etc.

Just as it was.

That's my feeling as well and that chick is smoking hot! Isn't this the B-17G formerly known as Chuckie? If so, I believe it is the only surviving B-17 built as an H2X Pathfinder radar unit.


Chappie

[lmritger]

Remember back when you were like 12 or 13, and you'd be hanging at the park with your friends and you carved your name into a park bench or a nearby tree?




Some folks never grew out of that.




As I posted elsewhere:

This is the former "Chuckie", the only known surviving original PFF-equipped B-17. The Vintage Flight Museum and the Military Aviation Museum both spent a lot of time and effort trying to bring her back to stock wartime configuration, up until the MAM was forced to sell her last year.

So Jack Erickson bought her, and had her stripped down, painted the tail group fire truck red (not insignia red) with a 381st BG triangle "L" on the tail, and instead of proper unit codes, had his own initials "JE" applied in some weird round shape as the unit code. Because you know, when you've got one of only nine airworthy B-17s, one of the most iconic aircraft in American history, what really matters isn't honoring the service and sacrifice of the tens of thousands of airmen who flew and maintained them- no, what really matters is showing everybody that it's YOUR airplane. You know, because people might be confused or something.

It's been turned into a four engine, multimillion dollar ego trip.

His money, his plane, yeah, I know. It's not like my opinion, or the opinions of a WHOLE bunch of other people matter worth a crap, but I think the whole thing sucks six ways to Sunday. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of scantily clad women, but some things deserve more than a hot rod Harley paint job.

Lynn

[Sabremech]

I'm in the group who's not a fan of the "new" nose art. There's something not right about this one and also the new Diamond Lil. Certainly the owners prerogative.
David