Re: My first foray into wreck chasing
Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:24 pm
Woodsy Airfield wrote:SaxMan - Just curious - Do you know off hand the 3 types of aircraft that are designated by the State Of Maryland in Chesapeake Bay? It seems that if they are of military type - they would have recovered them - is this correct?...
Of the three aircraft, only one is definitively identified: a PBM Mariner that sank off Talbot County. Navy divers apparently opened up the top of the plane to recover the radar and radio equipment, but the rest of the hulk is still down there.
The second is a tail section of an aircraft near NAS Patuxent, tentatively identified as from either a Douglas Skyraider or a Vought Kingfisher based on the configuration of the rudder and elevators. However, I don't believe the diver was an aviation expert, as Grumman aircraft used the same type of configuration.
The third is also off NAS Patuxent and also is identified. The motor was removed from the plane, so they believe it was intentionally dumped out there. One wing is 16 feet long, with a 2 to 3 foot center section - which yields a 35 foot wingspan. The only Navy plane that seems to match that description is a Brewster Buffalo.
Re: My first foray into wreck chasing
Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:04 pm
Thank you for the info SaxMan - The reason I ask is I seem to remember that the Bell XFL-1 - the Bell P-39 Navy type that was under carrier trials - was dumped off at the beaches edge at PAX River property site at or near their disposal yard. It was there for a long time and I believe there was a 'Hands Off' policy towards it. Maybe Pensacola was claiming it, but hadn't recovered it yet or maybe it was thought to have been too risky of a proposition for recovery.
I appreciate your endeavor in seeking out these wreck sites...not too many folks going as far as you go - keep up the good work...
I appreciate your endeavor in seeking out these wreck sites...not too many folks going as far as you go - keep up the good work...
Re: My first foray into wreck chasing
Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:32 pm
I was thinking XFL-1 as one of the possibilities, but the wingspan is too big...and the mid engine design wouldn't match up with a plane with a missing engine. A Kingfisher has a 36' wingspan, so that could be a possibility, too. There are several other planes in the Chesapeake including a P-47 about a mile off the Bay Ridge section of Annapolis, but they haven't been "discovered" yet. There are also a pair of B-10s about a mile off the coast of Ocean City that went down in a mid-air collision.
Re: My first foray into wreck chasing
Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:48 pm
Here's a bit more detail on the three Chesapeake Bay sites:
The one in Talbot County is described as follows:
Wreck of US Navy PBM-3 Martin Mariner patrol bomber (seaplane), Bureau of Aeronautics number 6672, crashed on 2 January 1944 during training flight. No fatalities. Top of fuselage has been cut open, perhaps by Navy to recover radar and radios. Tail is broken off. Port wing is broken off and lies alongside. Port wing stub rises to within 7 feet of water surface. Depth approximately 30 feet alongside fuselage. Both engines missing. Site was surveyed and reported to MHT and USN in October 2000.
One of the two in St. Mary's County:
All-metal, low-wing, single-seat aircraft with bubble canopy, left wingtip to fuselage side 15 feet, fuselage 2' 6" wide, right wing broken, estimated wingspan 32' 6", rounded wingtip, vertical stabilizer not seen, engine and propeller missing. Possible military. Found via sidescan sonar. Site dived on 9/6/2010 by Institute of Maritime History members Dan Lynberg, Mike Nowotny, Dawn Cheshaek, and David Howe.
As the plane's engine was removed, it clearly did not reach this point in the bay under its own power. Howe muses that perhaps it was a fire-fighting practice hulk at NAS Pax River and was dumped into the bay to clean up the grounds.
and the other:
Aluminum structure, appears to be the elevator, horizontal stabilizer, and perhaps other components of an aircraft empennage. The exact nature and extent of the structure have not been determined.
Because the tip of the elevator wraps around the outboard tip of the horizontal stabilizer, it is possible the aircraft is a Navy AD "Skyraider" (later called an A-1) or an OS2U "Kingfisher." Those were the only, or at least the most common, types of mid-20th century US Navy aircraft with that configuration.
Bubble canopy would seem to point to the XFL-1...I can't think of too many other low wing Navy monoplanes with bubble canopies that would have that kind of wingspand.
The one in Talbot County is described as follows:
Wreck of US Navy PBM-3 Martin Mariner patrol bomber (seaplane), Bureau of Aeronautics number 6672, crashed on 2 January 1944 during training flight. No fatalities. Top of fuselage has been cut open, perhaps by Navy to recover radar and radios. Tail is broken off. Port wing is broken off and lies alongside. Port wing stub rises to within 7 feet of water surface. Depth approximately 30 feet alongside fuselage. Both engines missing. Site was surveyed and reported to MHT and USN in October 2000.
One of the two in St. Mary's County:
All-metal, low-wing, single-seat aircraft with bubble canopy, left wingtip to fuselage side 15 feet, fuselage 2' 6" wide, right wing broken, estimated wingspan 32' 6", rounded wingtip, vertical stabilizer not seen, engine and propeller missing. Possible military. Found via sidescan sonar. Site dived on 9/6/2010 by Institute of Maritime History members Dan Lynberg, Mike Nowotny, Dawn Cheshaek, and David Howe.
As the plane's engine was removed, it clearly did not reach this point in the bay under its own power. Howe muses that perhaps it was a fire-fighting practice hulk at NAS Pax River and was dumped into the bay to clean up the grounds.
and the other:
Aluminum structure, appears to be the elevator, horizontal stabilizer, and perhaps other components of an aircraft empennage. The exact nature and extent of the structure have not been determined.
Because the tip of the elevator wraps around the outboard tip of the horizontal stabilizer, it is possible the aircraft is a Navy AD "Skyraider" (later called an A-1) or an OS2U "Kingfisher." Those were the only, or at least the most common, types of mid-20th century US Navy aircraft with that configuration.
Bubble canopy would seem to point to the XFL-1...I can't think of too many other low wing Navy monoplanes with bubble canopies that would have that kind of wingspand.