Warbird Adventures...

JimH · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:49 pm

It has shoulder straps...They slid off of the parachute back pad...they were on when we took off....I didn't notice that while we were flying I was busy doing other things. The cockpit is really tight...both of my upper arms are bruised from the cockpit tub.

jim

The Inspector · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:28 pm

bombadier29 wrote:

The Inspector wrote:

.....and no one who worked on it all that time @ STORMBIRDS was given a 'payoff' ride in it.

Weren't they paid employees?

It's obvious you just don't understand and never will-

The Inspector · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:30 pm

JimH wrote:

It has shoulder straps...They slid off of the parachute back pad...they were on when we took off....I didn't notice that while we were flying I was busy doing other things. The cockpit is really tight...both of my upper arms are bruised from the cockpit tub.

jim

Wolf said he understood why his thumb was so sore after watching video and noticed he was always triming the airplane :lol:

bombadier29 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:17 pm **Posts:** 272

JimH wrote:

It has shoulder straps...They slid off of the parachute back pad...they were on when we took off....I didn't notice that while we were flying I was busy doing other things. The cockpit is really tight...both of my upper arms are bruised from the cockpit tub.

jim

That makes sense and I appreciate the answer.

The Inspector wrote:

It's obvious you just don't understand and never will-

I understand perfectly well. I was just establishing the fact that it isn't like they were volunteers and were promised a ride in return for their years of toil. They were paid employees that were compensated for the job they did. Didn't it take nearly as much time for Stormbirds to build the plane as it did for another company to make it right?

JimH · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:18 pm

I don't fly jets...I am basing this on my one and only flight. It's easy with both running. Match the rpm gauges and bump the rudder trim until the ball is in the middle, which didn't take much...at all. The elevator trim was also "set it and forget it". It handles alot like a B-25 except in yaw. The airplane is really light on the rudders. I did some steep turns that were effortless...the thrust is awesome, and here again that is because I am not used to jets. The rate of roll is fast...Pitts Special fast, and effortless. While we have the realiability of the CJ6-10 the thrust is fairly similar to the Jumo...or so I have been told. The airframe doesn't care how you get it to 250kts. either with a CJ or Jumo, the handling is what counts. We will only know how accurate this is IF Paul Allen's ever flies.

Jim

PS I think a good rule of thumb...volunteer with organizations not shops...In the end its the owner that dictates how the airplane will be flown...and with whom. Operating this airplane is NOT cheap and there are NO freebies.

As a touring organization everyone but our van driver goes in the aircraft...I wouldn't have flown the 262 had it not been the need to take it to Marana...OR if I were ever put into the pilot pool...which won't happen as I have NO jet time.

phil65 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:25 pm

You need to bring it to Reno, and do a few laps.

Boston Strong

DH82EH · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:32 pm

Thanks Jim

For your candor, and the wisdom of your experience.
And your participation in this thread & website.

Andy Scott

JohnTerrell · **Posted:** Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:15 pm

Thank you Jim for sharing all of these brilliant photos and insights (fantastic to read about your comparisons between aircraft)! I was going to say, that the way in which it appears that one is shoehorned into the 262, who needs shoulder straps? ; )

262crew · **Joined:** Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:24 pm **Posts:** 877

The Inspector wrote:

It's obvious you just don't understand and never will-

Quote:

I understand perfectly well. I was just establishing the fact that it isn't like they were volunteers and were promised a ride in return for their years of toil. They were paid employees that were compensated for the job they did. Didn't it take nearly as much time for Stormbirds to build the plane as it did for another company to make it right?

I think what the Inspector is saying is that if you were not there then you will not know how much blood, sweat, tears and passion was put into getting these aircraft in the air. You can read about it in Wolf's book.

http://www.amazon.com/Project-262-Test- ... 3981161505

The Inspector · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:48 am

262crew wrote:

The Inspector wrote:

It's obvious you just don't understand and never will-

Quote:

I understand perfectly well. I was just establishing the fact that it isn't like they were volunteers and were promised a ride in return for their years of toil. They were paid employees that were compensated for the job they did. Didn't it take nearly as much time for Stormbirds to build the plane as it did for another company to make it right?

I think what the Inspector is saying is that if you were not there then you will not know how much blood, sweat, tears and passion was put into getting these aircraft in the air. You can read about it in Wolf's book.

http://www.amazon.com/Project-262-Test- ... 3981161505

And better than half the crew were always volunteers who worked hard on correcting issues which basically required disassembling, correcting or redesigning and reassembling several items.

Robbie Stuart · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:55 am

Jim, thanks for the cool photos. I have two computers in my office that various Crew Chiefs use. I have been using some of your in cockpit shots for the computer wall paper. When I put up the 262 I told them that the first one of them that could tell me what kind of aircraft that is, I would buy them lunch.
Well, I think they are about ready to buy me lunch so I will tell them what it is. :supz:

Only a matter of time before they find out where I am getting the pics, then my gig's over! :shock:

Robbie

bombadier29 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:17 pm **Posts:** 272

The Inspector wrote:

262crew wrote:

The Inspector wrote:

It's obvious you just don't understand and never will-

Quote:

I understand perfectly well. I was just establishing the fact that it isn't like they were volunteers and were promised a ride in return for their years of toil. They were paid employees that were compensated for the job they did. Didn't it take nearly as much time for Stormbirds to build the plane as it did for another company to make it right?

I think what the Inspector is saying is that if you were not there then you will not know how much blood, sweat, tears and passion was put into getting these aircraft in the air. You can read about it in Wolf's book.

http://www.amazon.com/Project-262-Test- ... 3981161505

And better than half the crew were always volunteers who worked hard on correcting issues which basically required disassembling, correcting or redesigning and reassembling several items.

You are right, I don't know how much blood, sweat and tears was actually put into the plane up at Paine field as I wasn't involved. But volunteers or not, I do know that more work than should have been required had to be done on the airplane when it got to California to get it to even close to get it to the condition it is in now. How many years was it worked on after leaving Stormbirds? The accident that did so much damage to the airplane was quite unfortunate but a lot of the stuff fixed in California wasn't just from that.
One of the things that I used to see during the tours of the facility was the showing of components from Texas that weren't airworthy. Hacked up parts, rivet holes that looked like snowmen, household pop rivets holding parts together and such. While the people went on and on about the bad workmanship on the airplanes down in Texas they forgot to mention that many of those parts they used as examples were actually test pieces and mockups and never intended to be airworthy. While a lot of things about the Ft. Worth part of the story left something to be desired, they weren't totally to blame for all of it.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:28 am

Since you continue to show your lack of knowledge about this aircraft, please keep this in mind, it was mostly built (wings, fuselage, empennage, gear) when it arrived @ KPAE, and a lot of what was found @ Sanders place came from the previous, original builders, you are free to draw your own conclusions as to what transpired there.

To prevent stirring up a firestorm, this is the last statement I make on this subject.

bombadier29 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:17 pm **Posts:** 272

The Inspector wrote:

Since you continue to show your lack of knowledge about this aircraft, please keep this in mind, it was mostly built (wings, fuselage, empennage, gear) when it arrived @ KPAE, and a lot of what was found @ Sanders place came from the previous, original builders, you are free to draw your own conclusions as to what transpired there.

To prevent stirring up a firestorm, this is the last statement I make on this subject.

Bill I'm not the one showing the lack of knowledge here pal. Are you are saying that it left the shop @KPAE with stuff wrong from Texas? Meaning that the shop @KPAE didn't fix it? I know your son worked on the planes and I have known a few of the people involved with the project @KPAE and in Ft Worth and in California. I knew Steve Snyder very well and had very early exposure to the project. While I certainly don't have all the facts, I do know a lot more about this project than you think I do.

JimH · **Posted:** Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:27 pm

The airplane is a homebuilt...it had ALOT of issues when it arrived at Sanders. I WILL NOT go into what was wrong, BUT the fact is, it spent nearly 5 years at Sanders being "fixed". It is now a solid, reliable airframe. Take your arguments elsewhere.

Jim

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