Swim, anyone? Catch-22 cockpit in water.

[Ken]

Interesting that the TN Museum nose has a navigator window on the right side, but skinned over on the left. So the TN nose is at least a B/C/D (or possibly G with a glass nose grafted on). Since the window is flat, assuming it's original, that also points to an earlier model.

[gary1954]

I'd put it the same way as well.
Are there any other movies out there that would have had a cockpit scene shot from the Port side, since this one unlatches open on the port side.
I don't recall a scene like that in 30 Seconds over Tokyo (haven't seen that movie in a while) and can't recall when I looked at Hanover Street, and Catch 22 is ruled out (that I know of). concur due to the glass and that bubble dome thing aft of the cockpit, it's a B,C,D, or even a G is possible.....hmmm delima

[Jerry O'Neill]

I'm not sure about the cockpit used, but "In Harms Way" had a B-25 with Kirk Douglas making the "one way" trip to Gavabuto in a B-25. Next time it's on I'll have to check it out and see!
Jerry

[The Inspector]

I'd put it the same way as well.
Are there any other movies out there that would have had a cockpit scene shot from the Port side, since this one unlatches open on the port side.
I don't recall a scene like that in 30 Seconds over Tokyo (haven't seen that movie in a while) and can't recall when I looked at Hanover Street, and Catch 22 is ruled out (that I know of). concur due to the glass and that bubble dome thing aft of the cockpit, it's a B,C,D, or even a G is possible.....hmmm delima

'No Time For Sargeants'?

[Craig59]

I'd put it the same way as well.
Are there any other movies out there that would have had a cockpit scene shot from the Port side, since this one unlatches open on the port side.
I don't recall a scene like that in 30 Seconds over Tokyo (haven't seen that movie in a while) and can't recall when I looked at Hanover Street, and Catch 22 is ruled out (that I know of). concur due to the glass and that bubble dome thing aft of the cockpit, it's a B,C,D, or even a G is possible.....hmmm delima

'No Time For Sargeants'?

Nope. In the clip here they're in a B-17 cockpit. Look at the throttles...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fSw0ua5K0

[catch 22]

Gentlemen,
I've been visiting your forum since many years, but never tried to join it. Today I decided to change the status quo in the hope I have a few more details to add.
There is a very comprehensive article in Warbirds International, Vol.27/No.4 (Maj/June 2008) about the Mitchells used during the filming of "Catch 22". One of the photos published shows IMHO the same nose section as the one questioned.

The photo copied from the magazine was made during the filming of the bombing raid over the sea with Alan Arkin as Yossarian in the bombardier’s compartment, thus the "Dumbo" nose art.
Below are 2 screenshots from my DVD-copy of the movie, showing the same nose section with closed and opened bomb bay doors.


I think this is not the same nose section as in the photos from the Tennessee museum shown in previous posts, nor is it the one mentioned here and here.
As you see the nose section has no top turret, but "football" antenna on the underside of fuselage, the engines (fake or real) have the wide scoops for the Holley carburetors and all Clayton stacks are there. There is no navigator's window too. I think the nose has no real glazing (probably for the filming purposes), but some transparent plastic foil or similar material. There is a visible center frame for the front roof window (as stated in a post earlier).
The real "Dumbo" in the movie is a different a/c - see another screenshot below:

Note the high airscoops fot the Bendix carburetors and the second opening for a nose gun in the bombardiers section. The roof window is one piece with no center frame. Based on several sources "Dumbo" has the original s/n 44-30493, registration N9451Z and was coded 6V in the movie. BTW this was one of the few odd "movie mods" with the dorsal turret mounted behind the wing.

Last edited by catch 22 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

[gary1954]

greetings Yves, and thanks for coming out into the light....Catch 22 probably has many undiscovered surprises. I was not of the mind that the cockpit section in the museum in Tennessee was the same used in the motion picture. I don't believe however that there was sufficient time to dismantle Dumbo to the point that her cockpit was used in the dunking scene that got cut from the movie. It would be great to be able to run through the list of property that Rob Kyker may have or had.
Thanks for your input here in one of my favorite movies.

[Jerry O'Neill]

Welcome to WIX Yves, and thanks for the great information, photos and analysis.
That studio shot does look a bit like the same cockpit, especially with the wiper location.
Jerry

[catch 22]

Gary and Jerry, thank you for welcoming me!

I don't believe however that there was sufficient time to dismantle Dumbo to the point that her cockpit was used in the dunking scene that got cut from the movie.

Gary, this was exactly my point - the nose is not from the "Dumbo" in the movie, but the same as in the sinking scene. If you check carefully, even the "Dumbo" lettering on the original a/c slightly differs from the one on the nose section.

That studio shot does look a bit like the same cockpit, especially with the wiper location.

Jerry I'm positive this is the same part and it has nothing to do with the filming in Mexico and the Mitchells there. I went through the director's commentary of the movie yesterday and Mike Nichols speaks of the "full frontal scene" during the bombing raid and how he did it in the studio for the very first time, but there are no details about those shots made in the Paramount studios.
There are several more cockpit shots in the movie and IMHO they were done with a different nose section, eventually the one in the Tennessee museum, being also a part of an earlier B-25 type (C/D). Take a look at the overhead glazing in this 2 screen shots:


There are clear parts over the rear windows and behind the escape hatch. These parts are solid by the B-25J models:

They are also solid on the nose section used for the bombing raid and in the ditching scene.


Where is this second nose (from a B-25J) today is a good question.