Warbird Information Exchange

Couple of things:

1) If its his plane he deserves a size 15 management boot from the FAA and a phone call from his insurance company.

OR

2) If he is just a "hired gun guru pilot" he deserves a size 15 management boot from the FAA and the owner

....

_________________
Just part of the team keeping them going
F111 Ex USAF 67-109 A8-109
Canberra WT492
PBY USN 46679
Constellation USAF 54-0145
Dakota 44-76774
Skymaster 44-9126
Sabre A64-901
HARS, Albion Park, AUSTRALIA

what the heck are you guys taking about? Is there an image I can't see or am I slowly losing my mind?








Don't answer that...

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Just because you CAN do something, does not mean you SHOULD do it. Don Gentile was a pretty hot Mustang pilot too... but as he demonstrated in that final buzz of Debden, all it takes is one twitch, and you've got a crumpled ball of metal (at best). Gentile was lucky, though- not only because he survived unscathed, but because the only repercussions were to his career. An accident resulting from this kind of flyby today would generate massive negative publicity for the entire warbird movement, and like flies to crap, grandstanding legislators would almost certainly start agitating for further restrictions if not an outright ban on high performance warbirds.

Remember folks- when you strap on that warbird, you're carrying more than just avgas and your own a$$. You can (and WILL) be made an example of, in terms not of your choosing, if you decide to undertake dangerous and unnecessary maneuvers for the sake of showing off and wind up screwing the pooch in the process.

Please, let's be careful out there- fly safe and fly smart.

Lynn

Is the plane as close to the cart and the other plane as it appears? I know that if you are taking a photograph with a telephoto lens, distances get compressed...there's a picture of a P2V Firebomber on a drop that made the rounds on the internet some years back and it looks like it is right on top of the truck parked in the foreground, but I'm pretty sure that is an illusion from the telephoto lens used.

I am also having trouble viewing the image.

Couple more degrees down on the left wing and the folks in attendance would have had a nice demo of how one goes about recycling $2M of aluminum.

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/p51regis ... 11540.html

I believe he went between the cart and the Piper.
Look it over and make a decision about the photo.
As I said this was several years ago.
The pilot is very proficient and is used to flying in a way that 99.99% of pilots can't. I did say he is very proficient at flying low. Thousands of hours in the Navy flying in an environment that almost none of us have experienced. He has hung his hide out for the freedoms we all get to enjoy.
Does it make it right? You all have an opinion.
Can you do anything about it? No.
Does he continue to fly airshows? Yes.
Does it mean you like waht he does? No.
But, Unless you have an aircraft to loan him or are in the FAA there isn't anything you can do. Flaming him in an online forum will just make WIX more barren of owners and pilots of warbirds.
We all get to make decisions. Make good ones.

_________________
Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!

Beautiful aircraft, seen it at the Michigan City airport when it arrived to take a veteran on a ride bought by his family. It returned and flew back to Valparaiso ,Indiana with the back seat empty. What a dummy I was not to approach the pilot and ask that I would pay for the gas if I rode the 10 minutes or less back to his home base, he could say yes or no, who would know? I would walk home and be smiling all the way. It flew at the Gathering of Mustangs and Legends at Columbus ,Ohio in 2007 and that was something. The owner sold his collection, Corsair,Mustang etc.. Mustang now in Prague, I believe. I don't think that photo was taken at Valparaiso whose runways are 9/27 and 18/36. and doesn't have that much woods that close by.

I understand that the pilot is excellent, talented, etc etc and the lift vector in this shot is verticle, if the engine was lost right then that plane is still going nowhere but UP in a big hurry.
BUT as a warbird owner I don't think I would be comfortable with what is going on if that were my plane in this shot... and I darn sure wouldn't want the picture on the internet or on my insurance agent's desk.
I am all for some spirited flying like at Duxford but there are limits. just my .02

_________________
All I did was press this red button here...

_________________
Just part of the team keeping them going
F111 Ex USAF 67-109 A8-109
Canberra WT492
PBY USN 46679
Constellation USAF 54-0145
Dakota 44-76774
Skymaster 44-9126
Sabre A64-901
HARS, Albion Park, AUSTRALIA

I'm making a good , mature decision right now.......your response is bias.
Response-
My decision is not to run my personal opinions all over the internet. I do not know who I will have to work with or for in the future.

Your response indicates 1st hand knowledge of the pilot concerned.......so please pass on our opinions to your friend.
Response-
Pilot is well known. He is someone I have met but I don't currently have a working relationship with. See above response.

.put the protocols of Navy training are all about discipline and control.....no matter what the situation.
Response-
When he retired from the Navy he was the highest time F-14 pilot in the world. There is a well known video of a F-14 flying past an aircraft carrier going supersonic with a large shockwave cone. Yes you had to look down from the carrier deck to see him go by. It was a part of his training and the environment he was/is good at. There are many videos on youtube of military aircraft inches off the ground. Between the military and aerial applicators there are pilots that will spend the majority of a flight within 1 or 2 wingspans of the ground. It is something most of us don't have exposure to nor experience with. Does it mean what was done in the photo was the right thing to do? No. Does it mean he is an instant burn spot on the ground when he flies low? No. I know about old vs bold pilots.

The photo clearly shows a lapse of both.
Response-
The majority of car crashes happen close to your starting point, usually your home. But there are drivers that can drive close to 200 mph for hundreds of miles often within inches of another car, within a few feet of the walls and usually with someone tailgating and do it consistently a couple times a week for months out of a year. Which driver do you want to be next to, the driver who knows that in a few minutes they will be buying chips and salsa so they put no focus into the short drive or the driver that knows they are operating in an environment where there is no room for error and they are focused and in their zone relying on years of training and experience?

We see the photo and it is uncomfortable to witness. We obviously generate an opinion, usually based on our experience and our own emotions and we seem to express our response as a fact. I'm just trying to turn the mirror into a window and show a little of what is on the other side.

_________________
Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!

I have no public comment on the photo - I don't know enough about it. However one of Rich's comments got me thinking...
I'm not sure that's true, though it seems reasonable. Once, drink-driving was pretty socially acceptable; nowadays, as part of a range of factors, it is a lot less so (though far from eradicated). Certainly it varies across the western world, in areas, by age, demographic and most crucially, by education. Along with education, a big part of the improvement in that and fewer pointless deaths is a broad social and peer pressure across society.

Warbird flying, in general, is a lot less wild and there's a lot less "Watch this" accidents than there used to be.

There are numerous factors for that, some less creditable (as simple as the aircraft cost more, now) others more so, including wider scrutiny of behaviour, by peers and participants as well as spectators. Some pilots would like us to leave them in some self-regulating system; I'm unconvinced of the efficacy of 'peer grounding'; we've lost too many good aircraft to unfortunate ego-moments. The FAA and its sister organisations globally aren't a perfect answer, but they are part of it.

Likewise people supporting good, safe demonstration flying in act, cash and comment and not supporting no-margin flying is something to be encouraged, not dismissed or closed off.


The trick is to strike a balance of mutual respect. There are issues in this thread, but they stem from something that just doesn't look good. Keeping it looking good, and safe, there's no leverage for reasonable-seeming critique.

Indeed. Generally I'd hope to have made the decision to say, privately, "Mate, that wasn't smart, was it?" than having no choice of attending a funeral - or of having a weekend 'free' because the whole airshow got cancelled because someone else made a poor decision that affects all of us - and his family.

Just a few thoughts,

Regards,

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Can someone please repost this picture so us unwashed gentiles can see it?

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

This topic is rehashed everytime one of these telephoto compressed photos come up, and everyone cries that its a safety issue. I'll echo Rich's sentiments but add one thing. The FAA has judged this pilot competent to the extent that they have issued him an unlimited waiver on his aerobatic card. (Others here can fill in what that is called Class 1 or class A etc...) This allows him to use the aerobatic box at a show right down to the surface. Sean Tucker, Patty Wagstaff, Rob Holland come to mind. Practicing this routine countless times makes it NO different then the aerobatic performer in an extra 300 performing the inverted ribbon cut, with the canopy probably as close to the pavement as is the wing tip of this Mustang. It is a calculated risk as is any airshow performance, but one in which the performers after hours of practice are confident in making, and the FAA is confident to approve the display. They will continue to approve the displays as long as their criteria is met and they feel the public is not in danger. There is no reason to say this is a "bad judgement call" any more than you would wish any airshow act would just stay on the ground.

I disagree with the comment stating that if something happens that it will bring attention to warbirds. I think the Reno incident highlighted that considering the show is going on this year with just a change in the race pattern.

In these 2 pages it is shown several times.

A couple Youtube offerings of the man in question. The second video has warbirds-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh96WoT9Eqk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmv3ZRAI ... ure=relmfu

_________________
Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!