Warbird Information Exchange

I was not trying to stur up something. my friend said he saw it . hes not a plane enthusiast and was probably mistaken. the plane looked great there all weekend . i have some small videos of it starting up and moving.I love to see it every year. Im sorry if i gave anyone greif on this topic.not my intension at all.

I saw the bird take off and all four were making power.Your friend must have been mistaken.What a beautiful bird.

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Hang The Expense

Im very glad to hear that.

Good to know. As far as jumping to conclusions, I don't think this thread was bad at all. Everyone seemed respectful.

Rick, it's easy look for the only one with combat damage.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Yup...X2

Years ago, I was sitting on the ramp at our air station in Borinquen after towing our own planes out. The scheduled cargo hoppers would take off while still dark and it was fun to watch those old beasts roaring down the runway with stacks glowing red. Anyway, later in the morning one of the Connies came roaring by and I noticed she only had 3 turning. First thing I thought was something happened on roll. Nope....find out later it that was acceptable for them to go on 3. Don't know if they had cargo onboard but they did indeed take off on 3.

Years ago, our C-130's would shutoff two engines once onscene doing long SAR searches to conserve fuel. No can do anymore.

Chris - I was wasn't referring to respect, but how quickly it went from "I know a guy who..." to "how dare they", all on one unconfirmed report. Much ado about nothing.

I do have one question. When you said:

does that mean there's a time where we don't?

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Best Regards;
Chuck Giese --- Volunteer helping to restore B-17G 44-85734 "Liberty Belle".

I would think that the approved procedure takes the associated risks into account. The reduced gross weight gives you a similar power to weight ratio to the fully loaded aircraft. There is likely a higher vmc in case the critical engine fails to ensure there is adequate directional control and longer minimum runway lengths are specified. I also suspect that you have to be pretty accomplished in engine out procedures as part of your recurring training. I certainly was when I got my multi rating.

Not at all Chuck. It wasn't meant as an insult. But a few years ago when it was medical helos under fire, we hadn't done anything wrong. But we just would slow things down a bit and make sure our t's were crossed and i's dotted again and again even more than usual.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

wouldn't it be safer to just shut the opposite engine off to avoid the slew the odd number of engines would cause?

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Good to know all is well.
Still, I guess I know am wondering, if you had a B-17 and for whatever reason wanted to leave with only three turning, would you be allowed to do it? When the Collings folks told me in 1995 that the FAA wouldn't allow it, were they right? They had an engine issue then and had it spinning only for takeoff, so I can't see why they'd have done that just for looks otherwise.
So does anyone know if you'd get in any trouble with the FAA for taking off with one engine feathered? Just curious...

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

A few years ago, I heard a story about a B-17 leaving an event with three engines making power and the fourth prop being turned by the starter motor. The regs say the props must be turning, right?

Perhaps the Navy fliers among us can answer this question: Is it, or was it, common practice among P-3 crews to shut down two engines once established on patrol in order to conserve fuel? I know I've heard that somewhere, but you know how rumors are.

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Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida

Great that all four were turning. We are having an issue with Sentimental Journey right now with an engine. It was discussed for about ten seconds about whether to fly out on three. We all know the plane can easily do it but here is the major issue. If number two is feathered even with rope stuck in the cylinder, what happens in the event that for some reason beyond belief, that number one happens to take a dump on takeoff? That pretty much answered our questions about taking off on three. We are not flying combat missions anymore. No appearance is worth the risk IMHO.

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The more I learn about aircraft, the more I realize I still have to learn.

Dean, please don't take me as "book" on this, but I had a copy of the NASA P-3 manual many moons ago (misplaced it when I moved from Colorado so it might be in my parent's storage locker) and it had charts for 2-engine "Long Endurance Cruise" in it. Whether it was used or not is obviously up to guys who were there, but usually the Navy doesn't put together charts for something like that if they don't have an expectation to use it. I know the EP-3 guys I read interviews of after we had the one land in China talked about using it and "hanging the bird on its props" to get maximum endurance, but haven't heard or seen anything of note about whether the VP guys did it regularly too. This would be a Jack Cook question.

I remember when I flew on MAAM's Neptune in the early 90's hearing stories of people that flew them in the 60's of shutting down both props and running only on the outer jets. Does anyone know if that is true or just someone's active imagination? I know we used them only for takeoff.

This would be a good Larry Krause question.