Help these guys identify an aircraft

Versatile · **Joined:** Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:35 pm **Posts:** 636

I speculate it will take only a 1 hr at the most before identification. Wix is the go to place for Warbird info.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/history/ ... -when.html

bmoran · **Joined:** Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:48 am **Posts:** 142

IL-4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-4

Fearless Tower · **Joined:** Thu May 26, 2011 5:14 pm **Posts:** 365

I'm going with an IL-4:
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/ussr/aircra ... ber-01.png

The Inspector · **Posted:** Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:56 am

DOUGLAS A-20G-40-DO, 4321475, l/n 21122 3 minutes How'm I doin'?
This is a tricycle gear aircraft, the Il-4 is a serious tail dragger, as far as I'm aware, the U.S. never obtained any soviet aircraft directly during WW2. And where is that one guy getting 'slim glazed nose'? this is a 4 gun hard nosed straffer. There was a glazed nose for the A-20 but it was completely different in size and shape and amount of glazing than an Il-4, if anything the Il-4 resembles a G4M BETTY.

Versatile · **Joined:** Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:35 pm **Posts:** 636

The Inspector wrote:

DOUGLAS A-20G-40-DO, 4321475, l/n 21122 3 minutes How'm I doin'?
This is a tricycle gear aircraft, the Il-4 is a serious tail dragger, as far as I'm aware, the U.S. never obtained any soviet aircraft directly during WW2. And where is that one guy getting 'slim glazed nose'? this is a 4 gun hard nosed straffer. There was a glazed nose for the A-20 but it was completely different in size and shape and amount of glazing than an Il-4, if anything the Il-4 resembles a G4M BETTY.

Myself i don't know. How about this nose. Is it A-20?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/plane1b.jpg/

The Inspector · **Posted:** Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:12 am

Versatile wrote:

The Inspector wrote:

DOUGLAS A-20G-40-DO, 4321475, l/n 21122 3 minutes How'm I doin'?
This is a tricycle gear aircraft, the Il-4 is a serious tail dragger, as far as I'm aware, the U.S. never obtained any soviet aircraft directly during WW2. And where is that one guy getting 'slim glazed nose'? this is a 4 gun hard nosed straffer. There was a glazed nose for the A-20 but it was completely different in size and shape and amount of glazing than an Il-4, if anything the Il-4 resembles a G4M BETTY.

Myself i don't know. How about this nose. Is it A-20?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/plane1b.jpg/

NOPE! That's an Il-4 that won the days 'spot landing contest' :lol:

Look @ the shape and size of the vertical fin and the fact that everyone in the picture appears to be wearing Soviet Army uniforms

Fearless Tower · **Joined:** Thu May 26, 2011 5:14 pm **Posts:** 365

Versatile wrote:

The Inspector wrote:

DOUGLAS A-20G-40-DO, 4321475, l/n 21122 3 minutes How'm I doin'?
This is a tricycle gear aircraft, the Il-4 is a serious tail dragger, as far as I'm aware, the U.S. never obtained any soviet aircraft directly during WW2. And where is that one guy getting 'slim glazed nose'? this is a 4 gun hard nosed straffer. There was a glazed nose for the A-20 but it was completely different in size and shape and amount of glazing than an Il-4, if anything the Il-4 resembles a G4M BETTY.

Myself i don't know. How about this nose. Is it A-20?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/plane1b.jpg/

No way that is an A-20. Look at the photo I linked to - not only is the vertical stab the right shape, it even has the same horn sticking up from the top of the rudder, plus the IL-4 has the same framed nose that you see lying in the left corner of the crash photo.

Versatile · **Joined:** Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:35 pm **Posts:** 636

Fearless Tower wrote:

Versatile wrote:

The Inspector wrote:

DOUGLAS A-20G-40-DO, 4321475, l/n 21122 3 minutes How'm I doin'?
This is a tricycle gear aircraft, the Il-4 is a serious tail dragger, as far as I'm aware, the U.S. never obtained any soviet aircraft directly during WW2. And where is that one guy getting 'slim glazed nose'? this is a 4 gun hard nosed straffer. There was a glazed nose for the A-20 but it was completely different in size and shape and amount of glazing than an Il-4, if anything the Il-4 resembles a G4M BETTY.

Myself i don't know. How about this nose. Is it A-20?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/plane1b.jpg/

No way that is an A-20. Look at the photo I linked to - not only is the vertical stab the right shape, it even has the same horn sticking up from the top of the rudder, plus the IL-4 has the same framed nose that you see lying in the left corner of the crash photo.

Same type antenna in the pictures as on the display aircraft (russian)

Versatile · **Joined:** Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:35 pm **Posts:** 636

The Inspector wrote:

DOUGLAS A-20G-40-DO, 4321475, l/n 21122 3 minutes How'm I doin'?
This is a tricycle gear aircraft, the Il-4 is a serious tail dragger, as far as I'm aware, the U.S. never obtained any soviet aircraft directly during WW2. And where is that one guy getting 'slim glazed nose'? this is a 4 gun hard nosed straffer. There was a glazed nose for the A-20 but it was completely different in size and shape and amount of glazing than an Il-4, if anything the Il-4 resembles a G4M BETTY.

No cigar Sir!

The Inspector · **Posted:** Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:47 am

It is a DOUGLA A-20G unless the picture you are seeing is different from the color left side profile picture I see of U.S. ARMY A-20G-40-DO s/n 4321475 mfr l/n 21122 built in Santa Monica CA.
The 'balance weight' you think you see is the antenna wire lead tube in for the antenna wire running from the mid fuselage mast antenna up to the fixed vertical fin NOT the rudder. All control surfaces on the A-20 were frieze type where the balance counter weights were built into the leading edge of the control surface ahead of the hinge point of that control surface. The mass balance weight on the Il-4 is simular to the ones seen on Ju-87's, Bf-109's. Lancaster Bombers. and GRUMMAN G-21/G-44 elevators.
Since I've pinned this down to a specific s/n and a specific mfr. line number (21122) and the fact that you all seem to be overlooking the NOSE WHEEL on the A-20 VERSUS the TAIL WHEEL on the Il-4, the general shape of the fuselages (A-20 slabsided vs completely round) the size and shape of the vertical fins on each.
If you are going by the upper aft turret then using that criteria, a LANCASTER, STIRLING, or HUDSON, could be mistaken as an Il-4. Have you looked @ GOOGLE IMAGES yet to see the differences between an Il-4 and an A20?
OH, Yeah, one other fairly minor point of interest, the picture is of 'Little Joe' which is in the NMUSAF @ Wright Patterson AFB.
Pass that ceegar over here-

Warbirdnerd · **Joined:** Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:34 pm **Posts:** 2923

Inspector- Click on the imagecshack link in the 1st post on that thread
It should take you to this photo:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/plane1b.jpg/

Versatile · **Joined:** Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:35 pm **Posts:** 636

The Inspector wrote:

It is a DOUGLA A-20G unless the picture you are seeing is different from the color left side profile picture I see of U.S. ARMY A-20G-40-DO s/n 4321475 mfr l/n 21122 built in Santa Monica CA.
The 'balance weight' you think you see is the antenna wire lead tube in for the antenna wire running from the mid fuselage mast antenna up to the fixed vertical fin NOT the rudder. All control surfaces on the A-20 were frieze type where the balance counter weights were built into the leading edge of the control surface ahead of the hinge point of that control surface. The mass balance weight on the Il-4 is simular to the ones seen on Ju-87's, Bf-109's. Lancaster Bombers. and GRUMMAN G-21/G-44 elevators.
Since I've pinned this down to a specific s/n and a specific mfr. line number (21122) and the fact that you all seem to be overlooking the NOSE WHEEL on the A-20 VERSUS the TAIL WHEEL on the Il-4, the general shape of the fuselages (A-20 slabsided vs completely round) the size and shape of the vertical fins on each.
If you are going by the upper aft turret then using that criteria, a LANCASTER, STIRLING, or HUDSON, could be mistaken as an Il-4. Have you looked @ GOOGLE IMAGES yet to see the differences between an Il-4 and an A20?
OH, Yeah, one other fairly minor point of interest, the picture is of 'Little Joe' which is in the NMUSAF @ Wright Patterson AFB.
Pass that ceegar over here-

Not denying anything you say. You have always seemed to be very knowledgable. How did you come up with the serial #?

Versatile · **Joined:** Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:35 pm **Posts:** 636

The Inspector wrote:

It is a DOUGLA A-20G unless the picture you are seeing is different from the color left side profile picture I see of U.S. ARMY A-20G-40-DO s/n 4321475 mfr l/n 21122 built in Santa Monica CA.
The 'balance weight' you think you see is the antenna wire lead tube in for the antenna wire running from the mid fuselage mast antenna up to the fixed vertical fin NOT the rudder. All control surfaces on the A-20 were frieze type where the balance counter weights were built into the leading edge of the control surface ahead of the hinge point of that control surface. The mass balance weight on the Il-4 is simular to the ones seen on Ju-87's, Bf-109's. Lancaster Bombers. and GRUMMAN G-21/G-44 elevators.
Since I've pinned this down to a specific s/n and a specific mfr. line number (21122) and the fact that you all seem to be overlooking the NOSE WHEEL on the A-20 VERSUS the TAIL WHEEL on the Il-4, the general shape of the fuselages (A-20 slabsided vs completely round) the size and shape of the vertical fins on each.
If you are going by the upper aft turret then using that criteria, a LANCASTER, STIRLING, or HUDSON, could be mistaken as an Il-4. Have you looked @ GOOGLE IMAGES yet to see the differences between an Il-4 and an A20?
OH, Yeah, one other fairly minor point of interest, the picture is of 'Little Joe' which is in the NMUSAF @ Wright Patterson AFB.
Pass that ceegar over here-

Look how the Horizontal Stabs are attached or let's say the location. The A20 is higher up isn't it?

Look at the A20 slots_hinge) in the rudder. None in crash photo.

In the crash photo the fuselage going forward of the turret towards the cockpit is different than the A-20 photo

Fearless Tower · **Joined:** Thu May 26, 2011 5:14 pm **Posts:** 365

The Inspector wrote:

It is a DOUGLA A-20G unless the picture you are seeing is different from the color left side profile picture I see of U.S. ARMY A-20G-40-DO s/n 4321475 mfr l/n 21122 built in Santa Monica CA.
The 'balance weight' you think you see is the antenna wire lead tube in for the antenna wire running from the mid fuselage mast antenna up to the fixed vertical fin NOT the rudder. All control surfaces on the A-20 were frieze type where the balance counter weights were built into the leading edge of the control surface ahead of the hinge point of that control surface. The mass balance weight on the Il-4 is simular to the ones seen on Ju-87's, Bf-109's. Lancaster Bombers. and GRUMMAN G-21/G-44 elevators.
Since I've pinned this down to a specific s/n and a specific mfr. line number (21122) and the fact that you all seem to be overlooking the NOSE WHEEL on the A-20 VERSUS the TAIL WHEEL on the Il-4, the general shape of the fuselages (A-20 slabsided vs completely round) the size and shape of the vertical fins on each.
If you are going by the upper aft turret then using that criteria, a LANCASTER, STIRLING, or HUDSON, could be mistaken as an Il-4. Have you looked @ GOOGLE IMAGES yet to see the differences between an Il-4 and an A20?
OH, Yeah, one other fairly minor point of interest, the picture is of 'Little Joe' which is in the NMUSAF @ Wright Patterson AFB.
Pass that ceegar over here-

I think you are looking at the wrong picture. They are trying to ID the wreckage in the crash photos. Someone else posted a file photo of an A-20 on that thread. The crash photo is NOT an A-20.

Versatile · **Joined:** Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:35 pm **Posts:** 636

Fearless Tower wrote:

The Inspector wrote:

It is a DOUGLA A-20G unless the picture you are seeing is different from the color left side profile picture I see of U.S. ARMY A-20G-40-DO s/n 4321475 mfr l/n 21122 built in Santa Monica CA.
The 'balance weight' you think you see is the antenna wire lead tube in for the antenna wire running from the mid fuselage mast antenna up to the fixed vertical fin NOT the rudder. All control surfaces on the A-20 were frieze type where the balance counter weights were built into the leading edge of the control surface ahead of the hinge point of that control surface. The mass balance weight on the Il-4 is simular to the ones seen on Ju-87's, Bf-109's. Lancaster Bombers. and GRUMMAN G-21/G-44 elevators.
Since I've pinned this down to a specific s/n and a specific mfr. line number (21122) and the fact that you all seem to be overlooking the NOSE WHEEL on the A-20 VERSUS the TAIL WHEEL on the Il-4, the general shape of the fuselages (A-20 slabsided vs completely round) the size and shape of the vertical fins on each.
If you are going by the upper aft turret then using that criteria, a LANCASTER, STIRLING, or HUDSON, could be mistaken as an Il-4. Have you looked @ GOOGLE IMAGES yet to see the differences between an Il-4 and an A20?
OH, Yeah, one other fairly minor point of interest, the picture is of 'Little Joe' which is in the NMUSAF @ Wright Patterson AFB.
Pass that ceegar over here-

I think you are looking at the wrong picture. They are trying to ID the wreckage in the crash photos. Someone else posted a file photo of an A-20 on that thread. The crash photo is NOT an A-20.

He had me scratching my head. Especially with that serial #!

Now, we need when and where.

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