Kids and Warbirds

[sdennison]

Here's one to ponder. I see a lot of youngsters in the back seats of various warbirds. Many are shown wearing a parachute. Not to stir the pot but do we think that any young child, even up to teenagers are going to be able to handle an emergency, exit the aircraft, pull the rip chord and survive the canopy opening either staying in the harness or having their legs injured by the shock?

We as pilots should be able to execute the escape but I'd hate like hell to be hanging from my chute and watch my youngster auger in. So the obvious question is, should we be taking our kids up in vintage warbirds? Are we happy playing the odds?

Thoughts?

[Misterg97]

. So the obvious question is, should we be taking our kids up in vintage warbirds? Are we happy playing the odds?

Thoughts?

Interesting question ... and I'm sure their will be more thoughts than expected ...

While I agree with your question somewhat .... Should we take our kids in cars? Just an added 2 cents.

[sdennison]

Good call but my car is not 60 years old and if the engine conks out I don't have to jump out.

[Misterg97]

It's not you or your car that I worry about ... It's the other guy driving 60 in a 35 zone, jumping thru a red light and broadsiding you ...

[sdennison]

Situational awareness requirement much higher behind the wheel but don't get me wrong, I fully agree that the drive is much more dangerous than flying. I'm merely looking at the decision making process of putting a kid in a chute in a warbird.

[shrike]

Well, the alternative might be to take the kid for a ride without the chute, in which chances of successful egress are even smaller.

"even up to teenagers" Who the hell do you think flew these things in the first place? They weren't built to be flown by rich old farts, they were often operated by kids who, six months prior, may never have been within a mile of an airplane. I wouldn't expect a six year old to make a good PLF, but 12? Sure.

The belief that 'kids' are inherently incompetent and need to be coddled until their late twenties is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Really give a kid responsibilities and challenge them to meet them and you'll be surprised and what they can do.

[sdennison]

Well stated but the reality is?

[Ploesti]

Reality is to not put a pre-teen in a parachute in a warbird. IMHO

[Russ Blow]

Not a warbird but I was wearing a chute and performing basic aerobatics with my dad when I was 12 in a Citabria. By the time I was 13 he had me performing loops and rolls. I soloed at 16 and had my PPL at 17. Sure there was risk involved in all of this but what in life doesnt involve risk.

[Dudley Henriques]

Well stated but the reality is?

The reality is what its always been and always will be concerning the passenger egress issue. It's always a judgment call. You have to consider, as the issue relates to small children that as you have suggested, if egress becomes necessary, there is always the possibility that a youngster might not make it out, go through the process of parachute deployment, and make it to a safe landing.
All this having been considered, as is the case with ALL airplanes not just a Warbird, the ultimate and most useful way to deal with potential bail out is to minimize the risk down to an acceptable risk factor. You boil this down a bit further and it becomes apparent that providing the passenger chute or no chute, with a safe flight involves the providing of an aircraft in tip top condition and a pilot flying it safely within the aircraft's flight envelope.
In the end analysis, there isn't any magic bullet to guarantee complete safety for any passenger, even a child as is being discussed.
All you can do is as I have said, provide as safe an environment as humanly possible minimizing the risk factor.
FWIW, I guess I've given a ton of rides to youngsters in T6's, T34's etc. without incident.
Dudley Henriques

[Lynn Allen]

Well said Dudley, who is to say when it comes time, will every grown up jump? I'll never go sky diving but I do plan on saving it for if and when it comes to punch out.
I will keep the D ring though...

[sdennison]

Not a warbird but I was wearing a chute and performing basic aerobatics with my dad when I was 12 in a Citabria. By the time I was 13 he had me performing loops and rolls. I soloed at 16 and had my PPL at 17. Sure there was risk involved in all of this but what in life doesnt involve risk.

Fantastic! Could you have gotten out and could you have made it? I did all my training in a Citabria and can relate. How many times did your Dad have you practice egress from the back seat?

[sdennison]

Well stated but the reality is?

The reality is what its always been and always will be concerning the passenger egress issue. It's always a judgment call. You have to consider, as the issue relates to small children that as you have suggested, if egress becomes necessary, there is always the possibility that a youngster might not make it out, go through the process of parachute deployment, and make it to a safe landing.
All this having been considered, as is the case with ALL airplanes not just a Warbird, the ultimate and most useful way to deal with potential bail out is to minimize the risk down to an acceptable risk factor. You boil this down a bit further and it becomes apparent that providing the passenger chute or no chute, with a safe flight involves the providing of an aircraft in tip top condition and a pilot flying it safely within the aircraft's flight envelope.
In the end analysis, there isn't any magic bullet to guarantee complete safety for any passenger, even a child as is being discussed.
All you can do is as I have said, provide as safe an environment as humanly possible
minimizing the risk factor.
FWIW, I guess I've given a ton of rides to youngsters in T6's, T34's etc. without incident.

Well said, the point in this discussion is to have the pilots use your rational. I question, from the pilots I know who take kids for rides, do they use this train of thought.

Not limited to kids, I have opted to fly in a Mustang, T-6, T-34, Harvard without a chute. But I am a 61 year old fart and somewhat a fatalist. However, I have a lot of flying I want to do and am going to change some of my viewpoints. The kids, however, don't have that perspective. A parachute in the rear seat of a Mentor does not make a child seat in a Dodge Caravan.
Dudley Henriques

[Sabremech]

What do the statistics say? How many kids have been killed in Warbirds? We're any egress attempts tried? This ought to give you an idea of the risks and then you can choose to mitigate them. I haven't heard of any kids killed in Warbirds.

[sdennison]

Dudley, sorry about my reply, I didn't scroll down far enough. My diatribe starts after your FWIW line.

Dave, you are correct with stats. What I see is pictures of kids sleeping in the rear seat, in a chute, like a puppy in a car. I don't think that is appropriate. Again, I question the PIC judgement factor.