Ok I have to ask who saw Red Tails

[Rauhbatz]

Just curious who did the flying sequences and what were the P-51s used....

[Jarink1]

The Great Escape scene is just the tip of the iceberg for LUCAS!

As far as 'scene stealing' from Mr. Lucas.., that is his MO

Check out Youtube for Star Wars and Dambusters.., they play them back to back and then even overlay the Star Wars Deathstar trench scene with the Dambusters scene.., it is hilarious if not outright theft!

Same thing with the aerial combat scenes in Battle of Britain. Lucas took some of those most memorable scenes and stuck them in Star Wars as well.

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They stole one of the more memorable dogfight scenes from STAR WARS when Lightning (Wedge) makes the head-on pass to clear the 262 (TIE fighter) off of Easy's (Luke's) tail! I could swear I heard him say "Good shooting, Red 2" afterwards!

[Mike]

Just curious who did the flying sequences and what were the P-51s used....

The P-51s used in Czech were Rob Davies', Christian Amara's and Anders Saether's examples. P-40s came from Peter Teichmann and Christian Amara. I know that George Perez did some of the flying, as well as, presumably, the owners. George's P-51 was also used as set dressing in some of the scenes re-shot in NorCal last year.

[Lynn Allen]

One of the forums I read had a poster who claimed there was a P-51H in the movie.

Can anyone confirm/deny that? I haven't seen the flick.

Randy, I think its was the CGI magic that gave it a H model effect......

[EDowning]

On the bright side, the THIGAR people noticed 3 more places to search for Amelia while watching the scene where the P-51 attacked the ship.

[RyanShort1]

Walmart is now carrying a Red Tail P-51 model...


Ryan

[Steve Nelson]

Haven't seen it yet myself, but I do have a quick question. Did pilots in WWII use the modern "callsign" nicknames? I though they generally used some assigned code like "Red Four" or somesuch. I thought indivudual pilots having callsigns like "Lightning" or "Maverick" was more of a modern (Vietnam and later) thing. I'm sure the various pilots probably had nicknames for one another, but were they used in com traffic during combat?

SN

[cooper9411]

Walmart is now carrying a Red Tail P-51 model...


Ryan

Made in China!

Walmart is now carrying a Red Tail P-51 model...
[Ryan

Wow a P-51 model toy just like the ones in the movie! Oh, I forgot they didn't CGI any of those iconic P-51C's in the movie did they?!? I am sure creating CGI P-51D's was a lot easier and cheaper than P-51B/C's would have been........

[Django]

Nice. I guess I am going to have to take a trip to WalMart.

I'm pretty sure in the opening sequence, the 4 Mustangs that break off and chase the fighters are B/C models.

And I am also pretty sure that the CBI Mustang (WTF?) at the award ceremony was a B/C model.

I didn't notice any H models. Distorted CGI perhaps? That would really be silly to have an H. They'd have to build a whole new wireframe for that.

This was posted on the 325th FG Facebook page by Michael Lockhart. I thought it was interesting... reposted with permission...

Below is the letter to the AJC Editor by Bob Powell. I don't know if Bob's letter was ever published.
From: Robert H. Powell, Jr.

Date: July 3, 2008

This letter was not written for publication, but to enlighten you and your staff about some of the errors and misleading information you continue to publish, Perhaps it should be published to set your readers straight.

As a WWII Historian and former 8th AF fighter pilot flying with 87 missions over Europe during WWII, I am dedicated to factual reporting about the air war in Europe and aviation in general, and I take issue with the media (and not with just AJC) continuing to publish untrue and/or misleading statements about the Tuskegee Airmen (T/A).

Although I have great respect for the pilots and achievements of this WWII fighter Group, I do not appreciate the continuing repetition of myths and untruths about their military record, the latest example in the obit on Lt. Col. Charles Dryden in today's paper, repeating the same errors which appeared in his obit story a few days ago.

For more than 60 years the myth that they "never lost a bomber they were escorting to an enemy fighter" was their primary claim to fame. Then, several months ago, their Historian, William E. Holten, announced that his research proved that this was not true, that they had, indeed, lost some 25 bombers to enemy fighters. This myth still gets published occasionally, but far less frequently since he made this disclosure, thank goodness. Lies told often enough tend to become truths in the minds of many.

However, it now seems to have been replaced by another false claim, i.e. that the Tuskegee Airmen flew more than 15,000 combat missions. ALSO NOT TRUE!

Their own official records indicate that the T/A only flew 311 missions. Their so-called 15,000 "missions" were actually 15,000 "sorties." Apparently, none of your reporters know the difference between a "mission" and a "sortie," so let me define these for you and them.

Combat Mission - an assigned flight to accomplish a military objective. This can be flown by one pilot or a squadron or group of pilots flying together. It is recorded as one mission.

Combat Sortie - When, for example, 48 or 64 pilots fly together on a combat mission it is recorded as 48 or 64 combat sorties.

The T/A did not fly 15,000+ combat missions as stated in your articles about the demise of Col. Charles Dryden. They flew 15,000+ "sorties" To have flown that many "missions" during the time they were in combat in the MTO, they would have had to fly about 25 missions a day everyday they were in combat. Do the math. That's one mission every hour, everyday they were in combat. Impossible! Weather alone would have prevented this, not to mention the problem of keeping all of their aircraft flyable everyday over that period of time.

FACT: Their official records indicate they flew only 311 missions, a far cry from 15,000 claimed. Please advise your reporters of the difference between a mission and a sortie so that another T/A myth is not appearing in every mention of this Fighter group. .

The Dryden story also stated that the 99th Squadron of the T/A was "the most successful squadron in American history." NOT SO! It would be more correct to say they have been the most publicized squadron in American history, however, thanks to a fully-paid public relations staff in Washington, DC., the only such office of any military unit other than the U.S. Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard..

Although I do not have complete combat statistics on all the fighter groups flying out of Africa and Italy (the MTO), I do have the stats on all of the 16 fighter groups flying in the Eighth Air Force over Western Europe. And, when these records are compared, the Tuskegee Airmen rank at the bottom of the list despite the fact that they had four squadrons to only three for the 8th AF groups. FYI, and one of the reasons the T/A exploit their 15,000+ sorties (which they call missions) is that on a normal mission they would put up 64 fighters compared to only 48 for the 8th AF groups. And, since they did mostly ground support missions rather than bomber escort missions, the average length of their missions was about half that of the time in the air flown by the 8th AF fighters. Re the above mentioned stats, I would be delighted to provide these for your information if requested.

Another gross error in your first story on Colonel Dryden is that the implication that he was, individually, awarded the Congressional Gold Medal recently. ALSO NOT TRUE. Through the efforts of the New York Senator, this medal was awarded to the Tuskegee Airmen, authorizing all Tuskegee Airman to receive this award. It was not awarded for individual achievements, as implied, but for the role played by the T/A in breaking the color ban for pilots, a civil rights accomplishment, not for their military achievements. Had this award been given for their military achievements alone, it should also have been awarded to each and every other fighter group in WWII whose records exceeded those of the Tuskegee Airmen. In my opinion, this was a "political award" instead of a military award. No other bomber or fighter units have been awarded this Medal, only Unit Citations.

These are facts. Check them out, and here's to more factual reporting and a better AJC.

Most sincerely,

Robert H. Powell, Jr.
Author/Editor/Historian/Pilot
352nd Fighter Group
1545 Rainier Falls Dr.
Atlanta, GA 30329

[Randy Haskin]

Sorties and missions are interchangeable terms in the current world of combat military aviation.

[TROJANII]

Sorties and missions are interchangeable terms in the current world of combat military aviation.

Really?

[Randy Haskin]

Sorties and missions are interchangeable terms in the current world of combat military aviation.

Really?

In the way that it's being discussed in that letter, yes.

[TROJANII]

Sorties and missions are interchangeable terms in the current world of combat military aviation.

Really?

In the way that it's being discussed in that letter, yes.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.






(Just Kidding)

[TonyM]

Haven't seen it yet myself, but I do have a quick question. Did pilots in WWII use the modern "callsign" nicknames? I though they generally used some assigned code like "Red Four" or somesuch. I thought indivudual pilots having callsigns like "Lightning" or "Maverick" was more of a modern (Vietnam and later) thing. I'm sure the various pilots probably had nicknames for one another, but were they used in com traffic during combat?

SN

I agree Steve.

When Maj Thomas McGuire flew his last mission, his flight was "Daddy" flight. Daddy Leader (McGuire), Daddy 2 (Weaver), Daddy 3 (Rittemyer), Daddy 4 (Thropp).

From what I remember from my reading, this is how USAAF did it. I think they changed these up and did not use the same names all the time. I don't recall reading about USAAF pilots having individual/personalized Call Signs.