F-104

[Elwyn]

How many successful bail-outs were made using the downward firing ejection seat?

[P51Mstg]

I recall reading 21, that seat wasn't used for very long and was replaced by a normal upward firing seat....

Seems like a lot since the plane was only in active service with the USAF for a year before going to the Guard...

If you find a good supported number I'd like to hear it...

Mark H

[The Inspector]

A downward firing seat in an F-104A @ Edwards killed test pilot Maj. Iven C. Kincheloe during a takeoff emergency on July 26, 1956, Kinch was the first man to fly above 100,000 feet by taking the X-2 to 126,000 just a few days before Mel Apt was killed while going 3+ in the X-2.
One reason for the downward firing seat was the unsurity of the seats rocket motor being able to boost the seat/pilot above the 104's 'TEE' tail without cutting the poor pilot into 4 pieces. It didn't take long after that for the rocket motor to get a really serious upgrade in the grunt department.

[b29driver]

I recall reading 21, that seat wasn't used for very long and was replaced by a normal upward firing seat....

Seems like a lot since the plane was only in active service with the USAF for a year before going to the Guard...

If you find a good supported number I'd like to hear it...

Mark H

Can you document the fact that the F-104 went to the Air Guard in its 1st year?

[The Inspector]

First F-104As to ADC @ Hamilton AFB with 83rd F.I.S. on Feb. 20, 1958. one year later (1959)they were shifted to ADC gained Air Guard units.
Someone really needs to cover the role of ADC in the scheme of things in the 50's/early 60's. lots of very colorful markings and diverse groups.

[P51Mstg]

I did some searching on WIKI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lo ... _operators

Most USAF units were 1958 to 60.... NG took over in 1960.... It flew some in Vietnam..... Looks like the last was about in 1975 in PR Nat Guard....

So they hit the Guard in about year 3 not 1, I stand corrected....

Mark H

[The Inspector]

The only other downward seat (other than in B-47's and B-52s) I can recall was the one in the DOUGLAS X-3 but that was also how you got in or out of it.

[Elwyn]

Here's the only info I could find,
"Early Starfighters used a downward-firing ejection seat (the Stanley C-1), out of concern over the ability of an upward-firing seat to clear the "T-tail" empennage. This presented obvious problems in low-altitude escapes, and some 21 USAF pilots failed to escape their stricken aircraft in low-level emergencies because of it."

[Tom Moungovan]

I worked on the F-104, both single and 2 seat models as well as the NF at Edwards AFB in the mid to late 60's. Because of the nature of the machine, the seats had to be removed frequently FOM (for other maintenance).
In my opinion, they had a well designed egress system. If one was to come out, the crew chief would already have the hatch removed from the bottom of the aircraft. We'd safe the seat and get somebody directly under it to lift it up with his back. At that time, we'd have a winch attached at the top of the catapult rails to take the weight. With the four bolts which attached the seat to the aircraft loose, it would then be lowered by crank to the ground and then moved away from the aircraft.
A complex seat, but easy to access and work on.

The F-104 was a very interesting fighter from the perspective of the USAF. Compared to other nations, especially West Germany, it had a very small role in the U.S. inventory compared to other fighter types. As mentioned earlier, after a short initial active duty service with the Air Defense Command, the F-104A/B's went to Air National Guard Units about 1960 or so. Around 1963 F-104A/B's were put back in limited active duty service with the Air Defense Command to supplement F-101B's, F-102A's and F-106's for continental air defense duties. The last F-104A/B's were withdrawn from Aerospace Defense Command use about 1969.

The F-104C tactical fighter (only 77 built) along with a smaller number of F-104D 2-seaters was the only other model to serve as an active fighter with the U.S. and equipped the 479th Tactical Fighter Wing at George AFB, CA from around 1958 to sometime in 1967. The F-104C's were the only U.S. Starfighters to wear SEA camouflage and some of them served in SE Asia during the Vietnam War around the 1966/67 time frame. The F-104C was retired from active service in 1967 and some of them were assigned to the Puerto Rico Air National Guard who flew them until July 1975.

There were a number of TF-104G's that flew in USAF markings at Luke AFB or Williams AFB in Arizona well into the seventies, but to the best of my knowledge these were actually West German aircraft that were put in U.S. markings and used to train German Luftwaffe pilots to fly the F-104 in Arizona.

[The Inspector]

The F-104C done up in NASA blue and white in the MoF showed up @ the restoration facility for it's paint job wearing bare metal and a set of George AFB markings.

[b29driver]

I passed some KC-97 TxANG "gas" (JP-4) to those PRANG boys flying 104's in the mid 70's.

[The Inspector]

Must have been a real challenge, you guys with your hats on backwards and all the vents closed to make all the speed you could and those guys wobbling on the edge of rediscovering the detrimental effects of verticality

[Dave Smith]

Beautifully put, Mr Inspector!

[Invader26]

www.916-starfighter.de/Nozzle%20Failure%20at%2070.htm

Bit of interesting Starfighter reading.